GR translation: even this far out of it

[jochen stremmel]

That's a possibility, Mike, I didn't think of because I don't know English
as well as your source re: subjunctive – he's right, of course: that's what
Pynchon intended, I'm sure – and because Rilke doesn't use the subjunctive;
he uses the indicative of the preterite. Pynchon here gives us his
understanding of Rilke's line, and he might be wrong. But if there is the
possibility to express the subjunctive in Chinese, I would do it. (And
point out the difference to the original in a footnote or commentary or a
kind of "afterword to the translation".)

2015-08-30 5:25 GMT+02:00 Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>:

> Someone who knows English much better than I do suggested that this line
> is in the subjunctive mood.
>
> And from the OED:
>
> though
> *B.* conj. (or *conjunctive adv.*).
> *2.**a.* Introducing a subordinate clause expressing a supposition or
> possibility: Even if; even supposing that; granting that. (With verb. in
> subjunctive.)
>  1884   *Leisure Hour* Oct. 611   Though knots be tied in the
> sunshine..they're meant to hold in a gale.
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Jochen,
>>
>> Weisenburger says Pynchon 'bends grammar' here too.
>>
>> But I have always read the line as if Earthliness is an Enduring
>> Overwhelming Good, a God-like Everything, so to speak. The word is
>> listed as "uncountable' in dictionary definitions, therefore can be
>> singular or plural, it seems.
>>
>> A quick search reveals that some other translations go with 'forget',
>> but the most famous, it seems, go with your 'forgets".
>>
>> To me, 'forgot' does not work. it is all happening forever in the present.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 11:27 AM, jochen stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Another problem of this passage is the Rilke quotation because the
>> original
>> > has the preterite "Und wenn dich das Irdische vergaß". Pynchon does not
>> use
>> > an existing translation (And if the earthly has forgotten you) but
>> takes his
>> > own which is better in parts (the last line for example). The tense in
>> the
>> > first line – the 12th of the poem – seems strange and I'm nearly
>> inclined to
>> > think it's a typo for forgot because otherwise it should be: forgets
>> you.
>> > Don't you think so?
>> >
>> > 2015-08-27 14:59 GMT+02:00 Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>:
>> >>
>> >> In the 1960s and 1970s "out of it" came to mean disconnected, unaware,
>> not
>> >> part of the scene -- the "it" being a generic, undefined referent for
>> "the
>> >> world shared by everyone else." Coupled with the Rilkean "though
>> Earthliness
>> >> forget you," it's another way of telling us about Slothrop's shrinking
>> >> temporal bandwidth and increasing distance from -- or dissolution into
>> --
>> >> the world of rocket plots, history, Firm and Counterforce.
>> >>
>> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 3:15 AM, Mike Jing <
>> gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> V622.14-26   Through the flowing water, the holes of the old Hohner
>> >>> Slothrop found are warped one by one, squares being bent like notes, a
>> >>> visual blues being played by the clear stream. There are harpmen and
>> >>> dulcimer players in all the rivers, wherever water moves. Like that
>> Rilke
>> >>> prophesied,
>> >>>
>> >>>               And though Earthliness forget you,
>> >>>               To the stilled Earth say: I flow.
>> >>>               To the rushing water speak: I am.
>> >>>
>> >>>        It is still possible, even this far out of it, to find and make
>> >>> audible the spirits of lost harpmen. Whacking the water out of his
>> >>> harmonica, reeds singing against his leg, picking up the single blues
>> at bar
>> >>> 1 of this morning’s segment, Slothrop, just suckin’ on his harp, is
>> closer
>> >>> to being a spiritual medium than he’s been yet, and he doesn’t even
>> know it.
>> >>>
>> >>> What exactly does "even this far out of it" mean here?
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>
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