GR translation: even this far out of it

[Mike Jing]

That's a great suggestion, Jochen.  I probably have to track down some good
Chinese translation of Rilke's work for further reference.

On Sun, Aug 30, 2015 at 2:38 PM, jochen stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
wrote:

> That's a possibility, Mike, I didn't think of because I don't know English
> as well as your source re: subjunctive – he's right, of course: that's what
> Pynchon intended, I'm sure – and because Rilke doesn't use the subjunctive;
> he uses the indicative of the preterite. Pynchon here gives us his
> understanding of Rilke's line, and he might be wrong. But if there is the
> possibility to express the subjunctive in Chinese, I would do it. (And
> point out the difference to the original in a footnote or commentary or a
> kind of "afterword to the translation".)
>
> 2015-08-30 5:25 GMT+02:00 Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>:
>
>> Someone who knows English much better than I do suggested that this line
>> is in the subjunctive mood.
>>
>> And from the OED:
>>
>> though
>> *B.* conj. (or *conjunctive adv.*).
>> *2.**a.* Introducing a subordinate clause expressing a supposition or
>> possibility: Even if; even supposing that; granting that. (With verb. in
>> subjunctive.)
>>  1884   *Leisure Hour* Oct. 611   Though knots be tied in the
>> sunshine..they're meant to hold in a gale.
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 7:36 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Jochen,
>>>
>>> Weisenburger says Pynchon 'bends grammar' here too.
>>>
>>> But I have always read the line as if Earthliness is an Enduring
>>> Overwhelming Good, a God-like Everything, so to speak. The word is
>>> listed as "uncountable' in dictionary definitions, therefore can be
>>> singular or plural, it seems.
>>>
>>> A quick search reveals that some other translations go with 'forget',
>>> but the most famous, it seems, go with your 'forgets".
>>>
>>> To me, 'forgot' does not work. it is all happening forever in the
>>> present.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 11:27 AM, jochen stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Another problem of this passage is the Rilke quotation because the
>>> original
>>> > has the preterite "Und wenn dich das Irdische vergaß". Pynchon does
>>> not use
>>> > an existing translation (And if the earthly has forgotten you) but
>>> takes his
>>> > own which is better in parts (the last line for example). The tense in
>>> the
>>> > first line – the 12th of the poem – seems strange and I'm nearly
>>> inclined to
>>> > think it's a typo for forgot because otherwise it should be: forgets
>>> you.
>>> > Don't you think so?
>>> >
>>> > 2015-08-27 14:59 GMT+02:00 Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>:
>>> >>
>>> >> In the 1960s and 1970s "out of it" came to mean disconnected,
>>> unaware, not
>>> >> part of the scene -- the "it" being a generic, undefined referent for
>>> "the
>>> >> world shared by everyone else." Coupled with the Rilkean "though
>>> Earthliness
>>> >> forget you," it's another way of telling us about Slothrop's shrinking
>>> >> temporal bandwidth and increasing distance from -- or dissolution
>>> into --
>>> >> the world of rocket plots, history, Firm and Counterforce.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Thu, Aug 27, 2015 at 3:15 AM, Mike Jing <
>>> gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> V622.14-26   Through the flowing water, the holes of the old Hohner
>>> >>> Slothrop found are warped one by one, squares being bent like notes,
>>> a
>>> >>> visual blues being played by the clear stream. There are harpmen and
>>> >>> dulcimer players in all the rivers, wherever water moves. Like that
>>> Rilke
>>> >>> prophesied,
>>> >>>
>>> >>>               And though Earthliness forget you,
>>> >>>               To the stilled Earth say: I flow.
>>> >>>               To the rushing water speak: I am.
>>> >>>
>>> >>>        It is still possible, even this far out of it, to find and
>>> make
>>> >>> audible the spirits of lost harpmen. Whacking the water out of his
>>> >>> harmonica, reeds singing against his leg, picking up the single
>>> blues at bar
>>> >>> 1 of this morning’s segment, Slothrop, just suckin’ on his harp, is
>>> closer
>>> >>> to being a spiritual medium than he’s been yet, and he doesn’t even
>>> know it.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> What exactly does "even this far out of it" mean here?
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>
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