Purely out of curiosity...

[Steven Koteff]

All your clarifications are noted, and important--I should've been
carefuller about them in the first place.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:02 AM, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
wrote:

> But that's kind of my point. Me and you paying attention to this is
> meaningless. The MEDIA (95% of which is pushing a false narrative) are
> the ones who should never have run with this. If they hadn't, then we
> wouldn't be having to discuss it.
>
> And anyway, in the Big Picture, NOTHING really matters, does it? So
> why even bring it up in this particular context?
>
> J.
>
> PS - Further clarification... I never claimed that the Mohammed family
> planned any of this in advance, and I don't know anyone who does. The
> opportunity simply presented itself, and they ran with it. No need for
> any complicated conspiracy or plan. It's just that, as soon as the
> media jumped on Ahmed's alleged "mistreatment", THAT's when the
> conniving for money began. But that doesn't let Ahmed off the hook for
> his shitty behavior.
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:48 AM, Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I guess I'm curious also why this particular case is so exigent, if it
> is as
> > simple as the kid and his father are con artists, or malicious
> provocateurs.
> >
> > If that's the case, then the wrongdoing is a relatively simple one, and
> > committed on a relatively small scale (that is, by one or two people, as
> > opposed to the broader/less addressable alternative that it's a systemic
> > problem). People filing a ridiculous lawsuit--happens all the time.
> >
> > If that's the case, why does this particular one deserve more of my
> > attention (which I'm giving it) than, say, climate talks, what Trump
> means
> > for America, this Shkreli asshole, etc., all of which seem to be of more
> > pressing concern to the country than just a single father and son acting
> > wrongly and in a way that did not really physically endanger anyone. I
> mean
> > I guess the fact that the case is so zeitgeisty sort of gives it its own
> > exigence, right or wrong, and of course we should always be on the side
> of
> > truth prevailing, but...
> >
> > I dunno. I'm not saying it's wrong to have the stance that the family
> should
> > get nothing and should maybe be punished in some way. I do not even think
> > the ends-justify-the-means thing (meaning that maybe the attention this
> gets
> > helps lead us in the direction of more tolerance, of more peace, of less
> > systemic prejudice and injustice, etc...) is a good counterargument if it
> > depends on us accepting or ignoring something untrue--I do think the
> > distinction should be made. But I guess I'm saying it feels like the
> swing
> > in the other direction has been more than a return to rest or even an
> equal
> > sort of pendulum-swing, but has been additional enmity and attention,
> also
> > coming before all the facts are known, maybe.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Do you think there is room for both parties to have somehow acted
> wrongly?
> >>
> >> I.e. Ahmed and his father were being deliberately provocative (to the
> end
> >> of money and attention or whatever else) in Ahmed's bringing the clock
> to
> >> school and repeatedly calling attention to it,
> >>
> >> but also that the teachers and/or police (who as should be noted knew
> >> Ahmed much better than we do) were, at some turn, possibly less generous
> >> than they could've been? Let's say Ahmed is routinely a pain in the ass
> and
> >> the source of small-scale mischief (that is, suspendable and outrageous
> >> offenses but something short of taking lives) and possibly a bad kid,
> like a
> >> true-blue asshole. This seems true if he is guilty of deliberately
> inciting
> >> panic or whatever. (And if we can use the egregiousness of the lawsuit
> to
> >> retroactively inform our judgment of his character at time of
> clock-display,
> >> then we can also use keep going, by a sort of syllogism, to
> retroactively
> >> use it to assume that maybe he was just an obvious asshole from the
> start.)
> >>
> >> If that's all true, then the teachers are possibly collectively sick of
> >> his shit. Maybe one or several of them are having particularly rough
> days
> >> and so their patience is thin (this seems to be a fair possibility in
> the
> >> case of high school teachers who have to deal with dozens of students
> like
> >> Ahmed a day). And so maybe, despite having never actually thinking it is
> >> anything more dangerous than a clock that looks like an explosive
> device,
> >> they flex just a bit more bureaucratic muscle than they needed to.
> >>
> >> (We think that race/religion are the only things that can guide
> decisions
> >> like this, but in the case of a student and his school's faculty, likely
> >> their personal biases toward him are just as influential [though of
> course
> >> those are guided by any biases they might have toward his race/religion,
> >> etc.]).
> >>
> >> Maybe there are one or several points at which someone could've just
> said,
> >> "Ahmed, you're being an asshole, give me the clock, I'm putting it in my
> >> desk until the end of the day." But then, given the zero tolerance
> thing,
> >> there is a point at which this thing has too much momentum to just let
> go...
> >>
> >> I don't know. I mean that sincerely--I really don't. I think the account
> >> of things you posted indicates that Ahmed and his father acted wrongly.
> I
> >> also think there is room in there for the teachers and police not just
> to
> >> have been victims but to have been sort of...punitively trigger-happy.
> I say
> >> this as someone who also went to junior high, and to high school, in the
> >> 21st century, in a Union state, and who witnessed open enmity from
> teachers
> >> toward particular students for reasons like: A) the kid is black, B)
> the kid
> >> is not smart, C) the kid is hyperactive, D) the teacher seems to have an
> >> unhappy disposition as is, E)tc.
> >>
> >> I think, as a society, we are not well equipped to deal with situations
> >> this nuanced--in which multiple parties might have acted wrongly. Of
> course
> >> many such situations are probably like this to an extent. There are, I'm
> >> guessing, several minorities who were acting like assholes, possibly
> very
> >> high, being violent and unpredictable, making threats, handling (if not
> >> using) weapons, who were killed by police officers, who might not have
> been
> >> killed had they been white.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Mark Thibodeau <
> jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> >You've emphasized twice that the sources are 'mainstream.'
> >>> >Why is that? To indicate that it is an unbiased take (as opposed
> >>> >to a really political, say, blog) or to imply that it is more
> >>> >stringently fact checked or...
> >>>
> >>> I mention it because, as someone who was "internet famous" between
> >>> 1999 and 2006 (peak years 2000-2003) as sole author and content
> >>> provider of a quite successful proto-blog email newsletter (The Daily
> >>> Dirt), I am intimately aware of and particularly sensitive to the
> >>> (ahem) "liberties" taken by the reactionary right-wing side of the
> >>> blog-and-comment-o-sphere. I spent much of my seven years as Jerky
> >>> LeBoeuf (coinciding as they did with the Dubya preznitcy) debunking
> >>> and fact-checking the likes of Drudge Report, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh,
> >>> Free Republic, Little Green Footballs, and all the rest of the
> >>> then-nascent ultra-conservative first-gen blog-rolls. So I would hate
> >>> to be mistaken as one of those. On the other hand, I am currently on
> >>> the edge of despair due to so many of my former friends, readers and
> >>> other allies behaving as left-leaning versions of the assholes I
> >>> mention above, ever ready to assume the worst of any institution (or
> >>> cis-gendered white male), accept any and all claims to victimhood as
> >>> valid, and basically display the same kind of ravening, drool-flecked
> >>> howling, pack mentality, as if they've torn a page from the main
> >>> stylebook of the turn-of-the-millennium Conservative Movementarians.
> >>>
> >>> >It's hard, in something this complicated, to rely on second-
> >>> >(and third-, and...)hand reportage. When everyone involved
> >>> >has so much at stake now (even if the teachers acted 100%
> >>> >rightly, they're now in a situation where they are probably
> >>> >compelled to act and testify in their own self-interest, just for
> >>> > protection).
> >>>
> >>> Yes. And that's why I always try to reason these things out for
> >>> myself, with as cool a head as humanly possible. In this case, for
> >>> instance, I asked myself, would it be REASONABLE for a teacher to
> >>> believe that someone who brought such a thing into class was up to
> >>> some kind of mischief? As soon as I saw the "clock" in question... it
> >>> was clear to me that, OF COURSE the teachers were right to be
> >>> suspicious. The thing could not possibly look less like a clock. The
> >>> only way it could look more like a cliche'd action movie bomb was if
> >>> it was a bowling ball with a firecracker sticking out of the top. So,
> >>> next step for me, if the teachers were correct in SUSPECTING POSSIBLE
> >>> BAD INTENT, then were they right to call in the police? It turns out,
> >>> considering the school district's zero tolerance policy, they probably
> >>> didn't even have a choice. Same as if they'd caught him with booze, or
> >>> a joint, or if he'd pinched a female student's bottom and she'd
> >>> complained... the authorities HAD TO BE called in. And they were. Now,
> >>> that leads us to the question of whether the authorities did anything
> >>> wrong by taking Ahmed into custody, or putting him in handcuffs, or
> >>> keeping him from his parents for an hour and a half. And you know
> >>> what? There is NO legislation that prevents police from detaining or
> >>> handcuffing a 14 year old. This should be patently obvious to anyone
> >>> who went through junior high school (as it was to me, as I myself have
> >>> personally witnessed teacher and police behavior towards 13/14/15 year
> >>> olds that was FAR more egregious and unjust than what poor Ahmed went
> >>> through). But apparently most of the members of the media who have
> >>> been reporting on this story were hot-house flowers who grew up in
> >>> social justice enclaves where they were taught (hahaha) that life
> >>> should be "fair" or something, or that if you have a problem with
> >>> authority, you can always sue the bastards. Well, maybe that's true. I
> >>> certainly hope it isn't, because for the Muhammed family to get one
> >>> thin dime out of this would be a travesty of justice and a blow
> >>> against common sense, in my opinion as an anti-racist, anti-fascist,
> >>> authority-skeptic liberal of long standing.
> >>>
> >>> Sincerely;
> >>> J
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Steven Koteff <
> steviekoteff at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>> > I don't mean to imply anything. Just thanking you for doing the
> >>> > research--I
> >>> > am in that gray area of being curious enough to want to know the
> >>> > timeline
> >>> > without being curious enough (or having enough time) to do much
> digging
> >>> > myself.
> >>> >
> >>> > And also, because you seem much more up on this than I am, I am
> curious
> >>> > to
> >>> > hear your takeaway.
> >>> >
> >>> > I think if everything in that article is right then it kind of seems
> >>> > like it
> >>> > was at best incredibly ignorant and irresponsible on the part of the
> >>> > dad and
> >>> > the son. At worst (and the direction it seems to lean, if the article
> >>> > is
> >>> > right) possibly a deliberately provocative act on the part of the
> >>> > father. To
> >>> > what end? Is it just about money and attention? I actually think, if
> >>> > the
> >>> > provocation is deliberate, it betrays not just run-of-the-mill
> selfish
> >>> > motives but also personal disturbance on the part of the father, and
> >>> > the kid
> >>> > too.
> >>> >
> >>> > But all that comes with the caveat that the account is true. You've
> >>> > emphasized twice that the sources are 'mainstream.' Why is that? To
> >>> > indicate
> >>> > that it is an unbiased take (as opposed to a really political, say,
> >>> > blog) or
> >>> > to imply that it is more stringently fact checked or...
> >>> >
> >>> > It's hard, in something this complicated, to rely on second-(and
> >>> > third-,
> >>> > and...)hand reportage. When everyone involved has so much at stake
> now
> >>> > (even
> >>> > if the teachers acted 100% rightly, they're now in a situation where
> >>> > they
> >>> > are probably compelled to act and testify in their own self-interest,
> >>> > just
> >>> > for protection).
> >>> >
> >>> > I read that article saying that the police said something, but at
> least
> >>> > half
> >>> > of me is thinking I should be asking, "But who says the police said
> >>> > that?"
> >>> >
> >>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Mark Thibodeau
> >>> > <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Here's a handy timeline from the ArtVoice blog. The facts all check
> >>> >> out (meaning the author hasn't misrepresented the mostly mainstream
> >>> >> articles to which he refers):
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On the morning of Sept 14, Mohamed El Hassan Mohamed drove his son
> >>> >> Ahmed to school and at that time, according to NBC Dallas/Ft.Worth,
> >>> >> Mohamed "encouraged him to demonstrate his gift of technology" at
> the
> >>> >> school. He was referring to a small plain metal case, inside of
> which
> >>> >> contained the hastily arranged and unshielded electronic components
> of
> >>> >> a 1980's Micronta digital alarm clock. A device Ahmed would
> repeatedly
> >>> >> insist he threw together the night before in just 15 minutes from of
> >>> >> "scraps" laying around his house, a device that he himself
> considered
> >>> >> to appear suspicious and threatening.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Defying common sense, it appears that Mohamed, the man who runs the
> >>> >> National Reform Party of Sudan, who is considered an enlightened
> >>> >> scholar in Sudan, who ran for its presidency twice in the last 5
> >>> >> years, whose daughter was suspended from school for a bomb threat,
> >>> >> whose son was detained and suspended for multiple disciplinary
> >>> >> problems and electronic pranks, in a town recently rocked by a
> double
> >>> >> murder honor killing and lies 25 minutes from the Garland TX Jihadi
> >>> >> attack, on the first day back to school after the anniversary of
> 9-11,
> >>> >> encourages his son to bring in a nondescript metal case with a timer
> >>> >> and loose wiring inside without being asked to by any teacher, a
> >>> >> device even his son admits looked threatening and suspicious.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Next we are told by Ahmed that he shows the device to his 1st period
> >>> >> Science teacher who sensitively and politely tells him the device is
> >>> >> "nice" but it looks like a bomb and so he should put it away and not
> >>> >> take it out and show it to anyone else at school.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> According to Mark Cuban who spoke with an Irving resident who's
> friend
> >>> >> is a teacher in Mac Arthur H.S., Ahmed proceeded to show off the
> >>> >> device to each teacher all the way to 6th period where in English
> >>> >> class, Ahmed claims to have plugged the device into the wall outlet
> >>> >> and set the alarm to go off in the middle of class "to show a
> friend".
> >>> >> When the teacher reacted to the disruption he "unplugged it right
> >>> >> away". After showing the English teacher what caused the disruption,
> >>> >> the teacher told him it looks like a bomb, that it is making her
> >>> >> nervous and would make others nervous, and to put it away in his
> >>> >> backpack, to which Ahmed said "I don't think it looks like a bomb".
> At
> >>> >> the end of class the device was confiscated and the Principal
> alerted.
> >>> >> The Irving school system adheres to a zero tolerance policy
> regarding
> >>> >> threatening devices, and being that the possession of such a device
> >>> >> with intent to alarm others is a criminal offense in Texas, the
> police
> >>> >> were called to question Ahmed and determine what his intentions
> were.
> >>> >> Later 3 teachers would sign a complaint to the police about a hoax
> >>> >> bomb, as the Principal decided to contact the police on the issue.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The police arrived at school and entered the conference room where
> >>> >> Ahmed was detained and one officer claimed "that is who I thought it
> >>> >> was". Likely referring to Ahmed's past troubles and his family's
> >>> >> notoriety. The police questioned Ahmed, and claimed he was not
> >>> >> forthcoming, passive aggressive, and would not directly answer their
> >>> >> questions. They decided to arrest him for possession of a hoax bomb
> >>> >> and bring him to the police station where they would continue their
> >>> >> investigation to determine whether he intended to raise alarm with
> his
> >>> >> device, a Class A misdemeanor.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Somehow or other it appears Ahmed's 18 year old sister Eyman found
> out
> >>> >> that Ahmed was being taken to the police station. There is an iconic
> >>> >> photo of Ahmed in handcuffs taken by Eyman, and some captions under
> >>> >> that photo indicate it was taken at the police station. This implies
> >>> >> his sister arrived shortly after Ahmed arrived, because he would not
> >>> >> have been in handcuffs after he was released without charge an hour
> >>> >> later. There is also speculation Eyman took the photo as Ahmed was
> >>> >> leaving the school in handcuffs.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Ahmed's father claims the first he heard of his son's problem was
> from
> >>> >> a phone call from the police. We do not know if he arrived with or
> >>> >> separate from Eyman. It is hard to believe Eyman heard about the
> >>> >> incident and arrived at the police station to take that photo and
> >>> >> never alerted her father. If Eyman only knew through her father,
> this
> >>> >> would mean they both arrived at the station in time to see Ahmed
> >>> >> before he went in a private room for questioning. Improbable but
> >>> >> possible. The father's account follows.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> **The first he heard of it was when he received a call from police,
> >>> >> who said his son was being charged with having a hoax bomb, Mohamed
> >>> >> said.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> He rushed to the police station, where he saw his son "surrounded by
> >>> >> five police and he was handcuffed," the father said. Ahmed told his
> >>> >> father he'd asked to phone him but the police told him he could not
> >>> >> because he was under arrest, Mohamed said.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> "I asked if I could talk to or speak to my son and they told me,
> 'No,
> >>> >> not right now' because they were taking his fingerprints and asking
> >>> >> him questions," Mohamed said. "I asked if I could see the thing they
> >>> >> were calling a bomb. The police never let me even see it but I knew
> >>> >> what my son brought to school. It was an alarm clock that he made.
> He
> >>> >> wakes up with it most mornings. **
> >>> >>
> >>> >> Here we have Mohamed contradicting his son's claim the device was
> >>> >> hastily thrown together the night before. His credibility as a
> >>> >> responsible parent and supervisor of his child already strained to
> the
> >>> >> limit, he goes on to claim, "my son was hurt and tortured and
> arrested
> >>> >> and mistreated in front of his friends at school".
> >>> >>
> >>> >> After further questioning, the police could not find anything in
> >>> >> Ahmed's statements to indicate he intended to cause alarm, and
> >>> >> released him without charge.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> The family went on to set off a social media firestorm portraying
> >>> >> Ahmed as persecuted and harassed, "hurt and tortured" by
> Islamophobic
> >>> >> xenophobic, vindictive officials from the school and police station,
> >>> >> holding press conferences where suddenly their son was able to speak
> >>> >> in great detail about the incident, as opposed to the "name rank and
> >>> >> serial number" routine he gave the police.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> There was never a moment where Mohamed El Hassan expressed even a
> >>> >> small fraction of responsibility as the parent the person at the
> >>> >> center of this incident. No apology or humility, only strident
> >>> >> arrogant and slanderous accusations issued from him. Even today as
> >>> >> Ahmed has been seen laughing, joking, and smiling all across the USA
> >>> >> as he visits dozens of august institutions and famous talk shows
> that
> >>> >> roll out the red carpet for the self proclaimed "inventor of a
> clock",
> >>> >> his family insists Ahmed is "severely traumatized" and "lacking
> >>> >> appetite and ability to sleep". Furthermore Mohamed refused to
> accept
> >>> >> the police repeated offer to come pick up the device, while hiring
> >>> >> lawyers to sue the police, in part, for refusing to release the
> device
> >>> >> to the family. The family has refused to sign a waiver allowing the
> >>> >> school and police from telling their side of the story to the media,
> >>> >> while they continue to offer a contradictory version that evolves
> >>> >> daily, along side baseless and slanderous accusations against
> >>> >> officials.
> >>> >>
> >>> >> According to Ahmed's own words, his authority figure (Science
> teacher)
> >>> >> confirmed Ahmed's own perception and told him his device looked
> like a
> >>> >> bomb and not to show it to anyone. Ahmed then set the alarm on the
> >>> >> device in the middle of class. He appears to have had the intent to
> >>> >> evoke some reaction. His actions were reckless, and arguably
> criminal.
> >>> >> Yet the media continues to portray him as a persecuted victim, even
> as
> >>> >> he and his family stood in NYC with the Mayor who proclaimed
> 9/29/2015
> >>> >> as "Ahmed day", before flying to the Middle East where they met with
> >>> >> various community and political leaders (including more than one
> with
> >>> >> a history of conducting large-scale massacres of non-combatants).
> >>> >>
> >>> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Mark Thibodeau
> >>> >> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> >>> >> wrote:
> >>> >> > And for those of you who are wondering "Where on Earth did he ever
> >>> >> > ADMIT
> >>> >> > that his creation might look SUSPICIOUS or LIKE A THREAT, Mister
> >>> >> > Smarty
> >>> >> > Pants?!", kindly jump to the 1 minute, 30 second point on this
> video
> >>> >> > to
> >>> >> > see
> >>> >> > where he basically admits that he knew the thing would probably
> >>> >> > freak
> >>> >> > people
> >>> >> > out.
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bGeBk8Fus0
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Mark Thibodeau
> >>> >> > <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> >>> >> > wrote:
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> I think a more pertinent question might be, please cite where
> it's
> >>> >> >> illegal
> >>> >> >> for police to detain and question 14 year olds.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> The teachers followed the rules, and the people who best know
> this
> >>> >> >> kid
> >>> >> >> --
> >>> >> >> the teachers who work with him on a daily basis (you know...
> >>> >> >> teachers?
> >>> >> >> those
> >>> >> >> underpaid heroes we love so much? the same people some of you are
> >>> >> >> now
> >>> >> >> willing to throw under the bus because it suits your OMGRACISM
> >>> >> >> worldview?)
> >>> >> >> thought his behavior merited action.
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> Before I bring you guys the most complete narrative I can put
> >>> >> >> together
> >>> >> >> of
> >>> >> >> what happened (based on mainstream news sources), HERE is a video
> >>> >> >> showing
> >>> >> >> what it took to "invent" the clock that he "invented"
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIzQjS6tn4w
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 3:45 PM, <rbollinger at austin.rr.com>
> wrote:
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>> Please cite your statute governing reassembled clock parts...
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>> Rob Bollinger
> >>> >> >>> Austin TX
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>> ---- ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >> >>> > Was the clock a school project? In other words, did a
> teacher, a
> >>> >> >>> > club
> >>> >> >>> > adviser, any adult in the school assign a project, and did the
> >>> >> >>> > clock
> >>> >> >>> > fit
> >>> >> >>> > the assignment? Or did the young man make a clock and bring it
> >>> >> >>> > to
> >>> >> >>> > school?
> >>> >> >>> >
> >>> >> >>> > As far as I can tell the young man did not build a clock or
> make
> >>> >> >>> > a
> >>> >> >>> > project,
> >>> >> >>> > or in any way bring something to school that was part of an
> >>> >> >>> > assignment
> >>> >> >>> > from
> >>> >> >>> > any adult in the building. It was not a project. It was not
> show
> >>> >> >>> > and
> >>> >> >>> > tell.
> >>> >> >>> > It seems the student took apart a clock, re-fashioned it and
> put
> >>> >> >>> > in
> >>> >> >>> > in
> >>> >> >>> > a
> >>> >> >>> > box and brought it to school.
> >>> >> >>> >
> >>> >> >>> > Why did he do this? What was his motivation?
> >>> >> >>> >
> >>> >> >>> > Whatever his intentions, if he re-assembled clock parts in a
> box
> >>> >> >>> > and
> >>> >> >>> > took
> >>> >> >>> > them to school, he broke the law. While 14 year old boys, and
> >>> >> >>> > sometimes
> >>> >> >>> > 14
> >>> >> >>> > year old girls, are instructed that bringing a clock in a
> box, a
> >>> >> >>> > plastic
> >>> >> >>> > gun, a plastic sword, a paper bomb or dynamite  etc..., even
> on
> >>> >> >>> > Halloween
> >>> >> >>> > is dangerous and against the law, young people do make these
> >>> >> >>> > kinds
> >>> >> >>> > of
> >>> >> >>> > mistakes, from time to time. Best if they make them in school
> as
> >>> >> >>> > school
> >>> >> >>> > is
> >>> >> >>> > the safest place in the world for students. Obviously, doing
> so
> >>> >> >>> > in
> >>> >> >>> > the
> >>> >> >>> > street may get one killed by a police officer or even a gun
> >>> >> >>> > toting
> >>> >> >>> > citizen.
> >>> >> >>> > In a school the child, age 14, will be interrogated,
> handcuffed,
> >>> >> >>> > probably,
> >>> >> >>> > and asked to write a statement explaining his or her
> intentions
> >>> >> >>> > and
> >>> >> >>> > the
> >>> >> >>> > police will contact the guardians and book the kid. This is
> the
> >>> >> >>> > law.
> >>> >> >>> > It
> >>> >> >>> > matters not the race or religion of the child.
> >>> >> >>> >
> >>> >> >>> > From time to time, a  brave administrator, more likely an
> >>> >> >>> > experienced
> >>> >> >>> > teacher will protect the child with a slap on the wrist, but
> the
> >>> >> >>> > current
> >>> >> >>> > mood in the country and in schools is making this a rare act
> >>> >> >>> > of....welll
> >>> >> >>> > not courage, but decency.
> >>> >> >>> >
> >>> >> >>> >
> >>> >> >>> >
> >>> >> >>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:02 AM, The Jonathon Hunt Experience
> <
> >>> >> >>> > newtalkingwall at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> >> >>> >
> >>> >> >>> > > Is there any evidence that the kid "only" took apart a store
> >>> >> >>> > > bought
> >>> >> >>> > > clock
> >>> >> >>> > > and put it back together, beyond people online pointing out
> >>> >> >>> > > that
> >>> >> >>> > > doing so
> >>> >> >>> > > is a thing that people can do? Beyond that, if the child
> acted
> >>> >> >>> > > as
> >>> >> >>> > > maliciously as Richard Dawkins and others would like to
> >>> >> >>> > > believe,
> >>> >> >>> > > this
> >>> >> >>> > > means
> >>> >> >>> > > his whole plan hinged on the knowledge that his teachers and
> >>> >> >>> > > police
> >>> >> >>> > > would
> >>> >> >>> > > confuse a circuit board and some wires with something that
> can
> >>> >> >>> > > explode. If
> >>> >> >>> > > our teachers and police are this stupid (which seems to be
> the
> >>> >> >>> > > case,
> >>> >> >>> > > here),
> >>> >> >>> > > then we are lucky in getting off with a $15 million dollar
> >>> >> >>> > > fine.
> >>> >> >>> > >
> >>> >> >>>
> >>> >> >>> -
> >>> >> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >>
> >>> >> >
> >>> >> -
> >>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>
> >>
> >
>
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