Purely out of curiosity...

[Steven Koteff]

It is scary just in how much it reveals about how reactionary we've become.

You know, in a really peaceable society, people remember that there's a
difference between being arrested and undergoing something that requires
damages--that's only supposed to happen once you get convicted. A person
who committed no crime occasionally being brought in for questioning and
then released is an unavoidable part of even the most utopian investigatory
system (you might call it, ahem, an inherent vice).

Was there any suggestion or indication that, aside from the arrest being
wrongful in the first place, he was improperly handled/treated? There is
this from the ArtVoice thing:

"I asked if I could talk to or speak to my son and they told me, 'No,

not right now' because they were taking his fingerprints and asking

him questions," Mohamed said.


If that's true (there's no time frame given I don't think) is that outside
normal/proper operating procedures?

Don't know if it constitutes the 'torture' the dad is quoted as suggesting.

On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
wrote:

> All your clarifications are noted, and important--I should've been
> carefuller about them in the first place.
>
> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:02 AM, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> But that's kind of my point. Me and you paying attention to this is
>> meaningless. The MEDIA (95% of which is pushing a false narrative) are
>> the ones who should never have run with this. If they hadn't, then we
>> wouldn't be having to discuss it.
>>
>> And anyway, in the Big Picture, NOTHING really matters, does it? So
>> why even bring it up in this particular context?
>>
>> J.
>>
>> PS - Further clarification... I never claimed that the Mohammed family
>> planned any of this in advance, and I don't know anyone who does. The
>> opportunity simply presented itself, and they ran with it. No need for
>> any complicated conspiracy or plan. It's just that, as soon as the
>> media jumped on Ahmed's alleged "mistreatment", THAT's when the
>> conniving for money began. But that doesn't let Ahmed off the hook for
>> his shitty behavior.
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:48 AM, Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > I guess I'm curious also why this particular case is so exigent, if it
>> is as
>> > simple as the kid and his father are con artists, or malicious
>> provocateurs.
>> >
>> > If that's the case, then the wrongdoing is a relatively simple one, and
>> > committed on a relatively small scale (that is, by one or two people, as
>> > opposed to the broader/less addressable alternative that it's a systemic
>> > problem). People filing a ridiculous lawsuit--happens all the time.
>> >
>> > If that's the case, why does this particular one deserve more of my
>> > attention (which I'm giving it) than, say, climate talks, what Trump
>> means
>> > for America, this Shkreli asshole, etc., all of which seem to be of more
>> > pressing concern to the country than just a single father and son acting
>> > wrongly and in a way that did not really physically endanger anyone. I
>> mean
>> > I guess the fact that the case is so zeitgeisty sort of gives it its own
>> > exigence, right or wrong, and of course we should always be on the side
>> of
>> > truth prevailing, but...
>> >
>> > I dunno. I'm not saying it's wrong to have the stance that the family
>> should
>> > get nothing and should maybe be punished in some way. I do not even
>> think
>> > the ends-justify-the-means thing (meaning that maybe the attention this
>> gets
>> > helps lead us in the direction of more tolerance, of more peace, of less
>> > systemic prejudice and injustice, etc...) is a good counterargument if
>> it
>> > depends on us accepting or ignoring something untrue--I do think the
>> > distinction should be made. But I guess I'm saying it feels like the
>> swing
>> > in the other direction has been more than a return to rest or even an
>> equal
>> > sort of pendulum-swing, but has been additional enmity and attention,
>> also
>> > coming before all the facts are known, maybe.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com
>> >
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Do you think there is room for both parties to have somehow acted
>> wrongly?
>> >>
>> >> I.e. Ahmed and his father were being deliberately provocative (to the
>> end
>> >> of money and attention or whatever else) in Ahmed's bringing the clock
>> to
>> >> school and repeatedly calling attention to it,
>> >>
>> >> but also that the teachers and/or police (who as should be noted knew
>> >> Ahmed much better than we do) were, at some turn, possibly less
>> generous
>> >> than they could've been? Let's say Ahmed is routinely a pain in the
>> ass and
>> >> the source of small-scale mischief (that is, suspendable and outrageous
>> >> offenses but something short of taking lives) and possibly a bad kid,
>> like a
>> >> true-blue asshole. This seems true if he is guilty of deliberately
>> inciting
>> >> panic or whatever. (And if we can use the egregiousness of the lawsuit
>> to
>> >> retroactively inform our judgment of his character at time of
>> clock-display,
>> >> then we can also use keep going, by a sort of syllogism, to
>> retroactively
>> >> use it to assume that maybe he was just an obvious asshole from the
>> start.)
>> >>
>> >> If that's all true, then the teachers are possibly collectively sick of
>> >> his shit. Maybe one or several of them are having particularly rough
>> days
>> >> and so their patience is thin (this seems to be a fair possibility in
>> the
>> >> case of high school teachers who have to deal with dozens of students
>> like
>> >> Ahmed a day). And so maybe, despite having never actually thinking it
>> is
>> >> anything more dangerous than a clock that looks like an explosive
>> device,
>> >> they flex just a bit more bureaucratic muscle than they needed to.
>> >>
>> >> (We think that race/religion are the only things that can guide
>> decisions
>> >> like this, but in the case of a student and his school's faculty,
>> likely
>> >> their personal biases toward him are just as influential [though of
>> course
>> >> those are guided by any biases they might have toward his
>> race/religion,
>> >> etc.]).
>> >>
>> >> Maybe there are one or several points at which someone could've just
>> said,
>> >> "Ahmed, you're being an asshole, give me the clock, I'm putting it in
>> my
>> >> desk until the end of the day." But then, given the zero tolerance
>> thing,
>> >> there is a point at which this thing has too much momentum to just let
>> go...
>> >>
>> >> I don't know. I mean that sincerely--I really don't. I think the
>> account
>> >> of things you posted indicates that Ahmed and his father acted
>> wrongly. I
>> >> also think there is room in there for the teachers and police not just
>> to
>> >> have been victims but to have been sort of...punitively trigger-happy.
>> I say
>> >> this as someone who also went to junior high, and to high school, in
>> the
>> >> 21st century, in a Union state, and who witnessed open enmity from
>> teachers
>> >> toward particular students for reasons like: A) the kid is black, B)
>> the kid
>> >> is not smart, C) the kid is hyperactive, D) the teacher seems to have
>> an
>> >> unhappy disposition as is, E)tc.
>> >>
>> >> I think, as a society, we are not well equipped to deal with situations
>> >> this nuanced--in which multiple parties might have acted wrongly. Of
>> course
>> >> many such situations are probably like this to an extent. There are,
>> I'm
>> >> guessing, several minorities who were acting like assholes, possibly
>> very
>> >> high, being violent and unpredictable, making threats, handling (if not
>> >> using) weapons, who were killed by police officers, who might not have
>> been
>> >> killed had they been white.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Mark Thibodeau <
>> jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> >You've emphasized twice that the sources are 'mainstream.'
>> >>> >Why is that? To indicate that it is an unbiased take (as opposed
>> >>> >to a really political, say, blog) or to imply that it is more
>> >>> >stringently fact checked or...
>> >>>
>> >>> I mention it because, as someone who was "internet famous" between
>> >>> 1999 and 2006 (peak years 2000-2003) as sole author and content
>> >>> provider of a quite successful proto-blog email newsletter (The Daily
>> >>> Dirt), I am intimately aware of and particularly sensitive to the
>> >>> (ahem) "liberties" taken by the reactionary right-wing side of the
>> >>> blog-and-comment-o-sphere. I spent much of my seven years as Jerky
>> >>> LeBoeuf (coinciding as they did with the Dubya preznitcy) debunking
>> >>> and fact-checking the likes of Drudge Report, Fox News, Rush Limbaugh,
>> >>> Free Republic, Little Green Footballs, and all the rest of the
>> >>> then-nascent ultra-conservative first-gen blog-rolls. So I would hate
>> >>> to be mistaken as one of those. On the other hand, I am currently on
>> >>> the edge of despair due to so many of my former friends, readers and
>> >>> other allies behaving as left-leaning versions of the assholes I
>> >>> mention above, ever ready to assume the worst of any institution (or
>> >>> cis-gendered white male), accept any and all claims to victimhood as
>> >>> valid, and basically display the same kind of ravening, drool-flecked
>> >>> howling, pack mentality, as if they've torn a page from the main
>> >>> stylebook of the turn-of-the-millennium Conservative Movementarians.
>> >>>
>> >>> >It's hard, in something this complicated, to rely on second-
>> >>> >(and third-, and...)hand reportage. When everyone involved
>> >>> >has so much at stake now (even if the teachers acted 100%
>> >>> >rightly, they're now in a situation where they are probably
>> >>> >compelled to act and testify in their own self-interest, just for
>> >>> > protection).
>> >>>
>> >>> Yes. And that's why I always try to reason these things out for
>> >>> myself, with as cool a head as humanly possible. In this case, for
>> >>> instance, I asked myself, would it be REASONABLE for a teacher to
>> >>> believe that someone who brought such a thing into class was up to
>> >>> some kind of mischief? As soon as I saw the "clock" in question... it
>> >>> was clear to me that, OF COURSE the teachers were right to be
>> >>> suspicious. The thing could not possibly look less like a clock. The
>> >>> only way it could look more like a cliche'd action movie bomb was if
>> >>> it was a bowling ball with a firecracker sticking out of the top. So,
>> >>> next step for me, if the teachers were correct in SUSPECTING POSSIBLE
>> >>> BAD INTENT, then were they right to call in the police? It turns out,
>> >>> considering the school district's zero tolerance policy, they probably
>> >>> didn't even have a choice. Same as if they'd caught him with booze, or
>> >>> a joint, or if he'd pinched a female student's bottom and she'd
>> >>> complained... the authorities HAD TO BE called in. And they were. Now,
>> >>> that leads us to the question of whether the authorities did anything
>> >>> wrong by taking Ahmed into custody, or putting him in handcuffs, or
>> >>> keeping him from his parents for an hour and a half. And you know
>> >>> what? There is NO legislation that prevents police from detaining or
>> >>> handcuffing a 14 year old. This should be patently obvious to anyone
>> >>> who went through junior high school (as it was to me, as I myself have
>> >>> personally witnessed teacher and police behavior towards 13/14/15 year
>> >>> olds that was FAR more egregious and unjust than what poor Ahmed went
>> >>> through). But apparently most of the members of the media who have
>> >>> been reporting on this story were hot-house flowers who grew up in
>> >>> social justice enclaves where they were taught (hahaha) that life
>> >>> should be "fair" or something, or that if you have a problem with
>> >>> authority, you can always sue the bastards. Well, maybe that's true. I
>> >>> certainly hope it isn't, because for the Muhammed family to get one
>> >>> thin dime out of this would be a travesty of justice and a blow
>> >>> against common sense, in my opinion as an anti-racist, anti-fascist,
>> >>> authority-skeptic liberal of long standing.
>> >>>
>> >>> Sincerely;
>> >>> J
>> >>>
>> >>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Steven Koteff <
>> steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>> > I don't mean to imply anything. Just thanking you for doing the
>> >>> > research--I
>> >>> > am in that gray area of being curious enough to want to know the
>> >>> > timeline
>> >>> > without being curious enough (or having enough time) to do much
>> digging
>> >>> > myself.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > And also, because you seem much more up on this than I am, I am
>> curious
>> >>> > to
>> >>> > hear your takeaway.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I think if everything in that article is right then it kind of seems
>> >>> > like it
>> >>> > was at best incredibly ignorant and irresponsible on the part of the
>> >>> > dad and
>> >>> > the son. At worst (and the direction it seems to lean, if the
>> article
>> >>> > is
>> >>> > right) possibly a deliberately provocative act on the part of the
>> >>> > father. To
>> >>> > what end? Is it just about money and attention? I actually think, if
>> >>> > the
>> >>> > provocation is deliberate, it betrays not just run-of-the-mill
>> selfish
>> >>> > motives but also personal disturbance on the part of the father, and
>> >>> > the kid
>> >>> > too.
>> >>> >
>> >>> > But all that comes with the caveat that the account is true. You've
>> >>> > emphasized twice that the sources are 'mainstream.' Why is that? To
>> >>> > indicate
>> >>> > that it is an unbiased take (as opposed to a really political, say,
>> >>> > blog) or
>> >>> > to imply that it is more stringently fact checked or...
>> >>> >
>> >>> > It's hard, in something this complicated, to rely on second-(and
>> >>> > third-,
>> >>> > and...)hand reportage. When everyone involved has so much at stake
>> now
>> >>> > (even
>> >>> > if the teachers acted 100% rightly, they're now in a situation where
>> >>> > they
>> >>> > are probably compelled to act and testify in their own
>> self-interest,
>> >>> > just
>> >>> > for protection).
>> >>> >
>> >>> > I read that article saying that the police said something, but at
>> least
>> >>> > half
>> >>> > of me is thinking I should be asking, "But who says the police said
>> >>> > that?"
>> >>> >
>> >>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>> >>> > <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>> >>> > wrote:
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Here's a handy timeline from the ArtVoice blog. The facts all check
>> >>> >> out (meaning the author hasn't misrepresented the mostly mainstream
>> >>> >> articles to which he refers):
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On the morning of Sept 14, Mohamed El Hassan Mohamed drove his son
>> >>> >> Ahmed to school and at that time, according to NBC Dallas/Ft.Worth,
>> >>> >> Mohamed "encouraged him to demonstrate his gift of technology" at
>> the
>> >>> >> school. He was referring to a small plain metal case, inside of
>> which
>> >>> >> contained the hastily arranged and unshielded electronic
>> components of
>> >>> >> a 1980's Micronta digital alarm clock. A device Ahmed would
>> repeatedly
>> >>> >> insist he threw together the night before in just 15 minutes from
>> of
>> >>> >> "scraps" laying around his house, a device that he himself
>> considered
>> >>> >> to appear suspicious and threatening.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Defying common sense, it appears that Mohamed, the man who runs the
>> >>> >> National Reform Party of Sudan, who is considered an enlightened
>> >>> >> scholar in Sudan, who ran for its presidency twice in the last 5
>> >>> >> years, whose daughter was suspended from school for a bomb threat,
>> >>> >> whose son was detained and suspended for multiple disciplinary
>> >>> >> problems and electronic pranks, in a town recently rocked by a
>> double
>> >>> >> murder honor killing and lies 25 minutes from the Garland TX Jihadi
>> >>> >> attack, on the first day back to school after the anniversary of
>> 9-11,
>> >>> >> encourages his son to bring in a nondescript metal case with a
>> timer
>> >>> >> and loose wiring inside without being asked to by any teacher, a
>> >>> >> device even his son admits looked threatening and suspicious.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Next we are told by Ahmed that he shows the device to his 1st
>> period
>> >>> >> Science teacher who sensitively and politely tells him the device
>> is
>> >>> >> "nice" but it looks like a bomb and so he should put it away and
>> not
>> >>> >> take it out and show it to anyone else at school.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> According to Mark Cuban who spoke with an Irving resident who's
>> friend
>> >>> >> is a teacher in Mac Arthur H.S., Ahmed proceeded to show off the
>> >>> >> device to each teacher all the way to 6th period where in English
>> >>> >> class, Ahmed claims to have plugged the device into the wall outlet
>> >>> >> and set the alarm to go off in the middle of class "to show a
>> friend".
>> >>> >> When the teacher reacted to the disruption he "unplugged it right
>> >>> >> away". After showing the English teacher what caused the
>> disruption,
>> >>> >> the teacher told him it looks like a bomb, that it is making her
>> >>> >> nervous and would make others nervous, and to put it away in his
>> >>> >> backpack, to which Ahmed said "I don't think it looks like a
>> bomb". At
>> >>> >> the end of class the device was confiscated and the Principal
>> alerted.
>> >>> >> The Irving school system adheres to a zero tolerance policy
>> regarding
>> >>> >> threatening devices, and being that the possession of such a device
>> >>> >> with intent to alarm others is a criminal offense in Texas, the
>> police
>> >>> >> were called to question Ahmed and determine what his intentions
>> were.
>> >>> >> Later 3 teachers would sign a complaint to the police about a hoax
>> >>> >> bomb, as the Principal decided to contact the police on the issue.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> The police arrived at school and entered the conference room where
>> >>> >> Ahmed was detained and one officer claimed "that is who I thought
>> it
>> >>> >> was". Likely referring to Ahmed's past troubles and his family's
>> >>> >> notoriety. The police questioned Ahmed, and claimed he was not
>> >>> >> forthcoming, passive aggressive, and would not directly answer
>> their
>> >>> >> questions. They decided to arrest him for possession of a hoax bomb
>> >>> >> and bring him to the police station where they would continue their
>> >>> >> investigation to determine whether he intended to raise alarm with
>> his
>> >>> >> device, a Class A misdemeanor.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Somehow or other it appears Ahmed's 18 year old sister Eyman found
>> out
>> >>> >> that Ahmed was being taken to the police station. There is an
>> iconic
>> >>> >> photo of Ahmed in handcuffs taken by Eyman, and some captions under
>> >>> >> that photo indicate it was taken at the police station. This
>> implies
>> >>> >> his sister arrived shortly after Ahmed arrived, because he would
>> not
>> >>> >> have been in handcuffs after he was released without charge an hour
>> >>> >> later. There is also speculation Eyman took the photo as Ahmed was
>> >>> >> leaving the school in handcuffs.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Ahmed's father claims the first he heard of his son's problem was
>> from
>> >>> >> a phone call from the police. We do not know if he arrived with or
>> >>> >> separate from Eyman. It is hard to believe Eyman heard about the
>> >>> >> incident and arrived at the police station to take that photo and
>> >>> >> never alerted her father. If Eyman only knew through her father,
>> this
>> >>> >> would mean they both arrived at the station in time to see Ahmed
>> >>> >> before he went in a private room for questioning. Improbable but
>> >>> >> possible. The father's account follows.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> **The first he heard of it was when he received a call from police,
>> >>> >> who said his son was being charged with having a hoax bomb, Mohamed
>> >>> >> said.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> He rushed to the police station, where he saw his son "surrounded
>> by
>> >>> >> five police and he was handcuffed," the father said. Ahmed told his
>> >>> >> father he'd asked to phone him but the police told him he could not
>> >>> >> because he was under arrest, Mohamed said.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> "I asked if I could talk to or speak to my son and they told me,
>> 'No,
>> >>> >> not right now' because they were taking his fingerprints and asking
>> >>> >> him questions," Mohamed said. "I asked if I could see the thing
>> they
>> >>> >> were calling a bomb. The police never let me even see it but I knew
>> >>> >> what my son brought to school. It was an alarm clock that he made.
>> He
>> >>> >> wakes up with it most mornings. **
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> Here we have Mohamed contradicting his son's claim the device was
>> >>> >> hastily thrown together the night before. His credibility as a
>> >>> >> responsible parent and supervisor of his child already strained to
>> the
>> >>> >> limit, he goes on to claim, "my son was hurt and tortured and
>> arrested
>> >>> >> and mistreated in front of his friends at school".
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> After further questioning, the police could not find anything in
>> >>> >> Ahmed's statements to indicate he intended to cause alarm, and
>> >>> >> released him without charge.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> The family went on to set off a social media firestorm portraying
>> >>> >> Ahmed as persecuted and harassed, "hurt and tortured" by
>> Islamophobic
>> >>> >> xenophobic, vindictive officials from the school and police
>> station,
>> >>> >> holding press conferences where suddenly their son was able to
>> speak
>> >>> >> in great detail about the incident, as opposed to the "name rank
>> and
>> >>> >> serial number" routine he gave the police.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> There was never a moment where Mohamed El Hassan expressed even a
>> >>> >> small fraction of responsibility as the parent the person at the
>> >>> >> center of this incident. No apology or humility, only strident
>> >>> >> arrogant and slanderous accusations issued from him. Even today as
>> >>> >> Ahmed has been seen laughing, joking, and smiling all across the
>> USA
>> >>> >> as he visits dozens of august institutions and famous talk shows
>> that
>> >>> >> roll out the red carpet for the self proclaimed "inventor of a
>> clock",
>> >>> >> his family insists Ahmed is "severely traumatized" and "lacking
>> >>> >> appetite and ability to sleep". Furthermore Mohamed refused to
>> accept
>> >>> >> the police repeated offer to come pick up the device, while hiring
>> >>> >> lawyers to sue the police, in part, for refusing to release the
>> device
>> >>> >> to the family. The family has refused to sign a waiver allowing the
>> >>> >> school and police from telling their side of the story to the
>> media,
>> >>> >> while they continue to offer a contradictory version that evolves
>> >>> >> daily, along side baseless and slanderous accusations against
>> >>> >> officials.
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> According to Ahmed's own words, his authority figure (Science
>> teacher)
>> >>> >> confirmed Ahmed's own perception and told him his device looked
>> like a
>> >>> >> bomb and not to show it to anyone. Ahmed then set the alarm on the
>> >>> >> device in the middle of class. He appears to have had the intent to
>> >>> >> evoke some reaction. His actions were reckless, and arguably
>> criminal.
>> >>> >> Yet the media continues to portray him as a persecuted victim,
>> even as
>> >>> >> he and his family stood in NYC with the Mayor who proclaimed
>> 9/29/2015
>> >>> >> as "Ahmed day", before flying to the Middle East where they met
>> with
>> >>> >> various community and political leaders (including more than one
>> with
>> >>> >> a history of conducting large-scale massacres of non-combatants).
>> >>> >>
>> >>> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>> >>> >> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>> >>> >> wrote:
>> >>> >> > And for those of you who are wondering "Where on Earth did he
>> ever
>> >>> >> > ADMIT
>> >>> >> > that his creation might look SUSPICIOUS or LIKE A THREAT, Mister
>> >>> >> > Smarty
>> >>> >> > Pants?!", kindly jump to the 1 minute, 30 second point on this
>> video
>> >>> >> > to
>> >>> >> > see
>> >>> >> > where he basically admits that he knew the thing would probably
>> >>> >> > freak
>> >>> >> > people
>> >>> >> > out.
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bGeBk8Fus0
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>> >>> >> > <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>> >>> >> > wrote:
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> I think a more pertinent question might be, please cite where
>> it's
>> >>> >> >> illegal
>> >>> >> >> for police to detain and question 14 year olds.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> The teachers followed the rules, and the people who best know
>> this
>> >>> >> >> kid
>> >>> >> >> --
>> >>> >> >> the teachers who work with him on a daily basis (you know...
>> >>> >> >> teachers?
>> >>> >> >> those
>> >>> >> >> underpaid heroes we love so much? the same people some of you
>> are
>> >>> >> >> now
>> >>> >> >> willing to throw under the bus because it suits your OMGRACISM
>> >>> >> >> worldview?)
>> >>> >> >> thought his behavior merited action.
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> Before I bring you guys the most complete narrative I can put
>> >>> >> >> together
>> >>> >> >> of
>> >>> >> >> what happened (based on mainstream news sources), HERE is a
>> video
>> >>> >> >> showing
>> >>> >> >> what it took to "invent" the clock that he "invented"
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIzQjS6tn4w
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 3:45 PM, <rbollinger at austin.rr.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>> Please cite your statute governing reassembled clock parts...
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>> Rob Bollinger
>> >>> >> >>> Austin TX
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>> ---- ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> >> >>> > Was the clock a school project? In other words, did a
>> teacher, a
>> >>> >> >>> > club
>> >>> >> >>> > adviser, any adult in the school assign a project, and did
>> the
>> >>> >> >>> > clock
>> >>> >> >>> > fit
>> >>> >> >>> > the assignment? Or did the young man make a clock and bring
>> it
>> >>> >> >>> > to
>> >>> >> >>> > school?
>> >>> >> >>> >
>> >>> >> >>> > As far as I can tell the young man did not build a clock or
>> make
>> >>> >> >>> > a
>> >>> >> >>> > project,
>> >>> >> >>> > or in any way bring something to school that was part of an
>> >>> >> >>> > assignment
>> >>> >> >>> > from
>> >>> >> >>> > any adult in the building. It was not a project. It was not
>> show
>> >>> >> >>> > and
>> >>> >> >>> > tell.
>> >>> >> >>> > It seems the student took apart a clock, re-fashioned it and
>> put
>> >>> >> >>> > in
>> >>> >> >>> > in
>> >>> >> >>> > a
>> >>> >> >>> > box and brought it to school.
>> >>> >> >>> >
>> >>> >> >>> > Why did he do this? What was his motivation?
>> >>> >> >>> >
>> >>> >> >>> > Whatever his intentions, if he re-assembled clock parts in a
>> box
>> >>> >> >>> > and
>> >>> >> >>> > took
>> >>> >> >>> > them to school, he broke the law. While 14 year old boys, and
>> >>> >> >>> > sometimes
>> >>> >> >>> > 14
>> >>> >> >>> > year old girls, are instructed that bringing a clock in a
>> box, a
>> >>> >> >>> > plastic
>> >>> >> >>> > gun, a plastic sword, a paper bomb or dynamite  etc..., even
>> on
>> >>> >> >>> > Halloween
>> >>> >> >>> > is dangerous and against the law, young people do make these
>> >>> >> >>> > kinds
>> >>> >> >>> > of
>> >>> >> >>> > mistakes, from time to time. Best if they make them in
>> school as
>> >>> >> >>> > school
>> >>> >> >>> > is
>> >>> >> >>> > the safest place in the world for students. Obviously, doing
>> so
>> >>> >> >>> > in
>> >>> >> >>> > the
>> >>> >> >>> > street may get one killed by a police officer or even a gun
>> >>> >> >>> > toting
>> >>> >> >>> > citizen.
>> >>> >> >>> > In a school the child, age 14, will be interrogated,
>> handcuffed,
>> >>> >> >>> > probably,
>> >>> >> >>> > and asked to write a statement explaining his or her
>> intentions
>> >>> >> >>> > and
>> >>> >> >>> > the
>> >>> >> >>> > police will contact the guardians and book the kid. This is
>> the
>> >>> >> >>> > law.
>> >>> >> >>> > It
>> >>> >> >>> > matters not the race or religion of the child.
>> >>> >> >>> >
>> >>> >> >>> > From time to time, a  brave administrator, more likely an
>> >>> >> >>> > experienced
>> >>> >> >>> > teacher will protect the child with a slap on the wrist, but
>> the
>> >>> >> >>> > current
>> >>> >> >>> > mood in the country and in schools is making this a rare act
>> >>> >> >>> > of....welll
>> >>> >> >>> > not courage, but decency.
>> >>> >> >>> >
>> >>> >> >>> >
>> >>> >> >>> >
>> >>> >> >>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:02 AM, The Jonathon Hunt
>> Experience <
>> >>> >> >>> > newtalkingwall at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> >> >>> >
>> >>> >> >>> > > Is there any evidence that the kid "only" took apart a
>> store
>> >>> >> >>> > > bought
>> >>> >> >>> > > clock
>> >>> >> >>> > > and put it back together, beyond people online pointing out
>> >>> >> >>> > > that
>> >>> >> >>> > > doing so
>> >>> >> >>> > > is a thing that people can do? Beyond that, if the child
>> acted
>> >>> >> >>> > > as
>> >>> >> >>> > > maliciously as Richard Dawkins and others would like to
>> >>> >> >>> > > believe,
>> >>> >> >>> > > this
>> >>> >> >>> > > means
>> >>> >> >>> > > his whole plan hinged on the knowledge that his teachers
>> and
>> >>> >> >>> > > police
>> >>> >> >>> > > would
>> >>> >> >>> > > confuse a circuit board and some wires with something that
>> can
>> >>> >> >>> > > explode. If
>> >>> >> >>> > > our teachers and police are this stupid (which seems to be
>> the
>> >>> >> >>> > > case,
>> >>> >> >>> > > here),
>> >>> >> >>> > > then we are lucky in getting off with a $15 million dollar
>> >>> >> >>> > > fine.
>> >>> >> >>> > >
>> >>> >> >>>
>> >>> >> >>> -
>> >>> >> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >>
>> >>> >> >
>> >>> >> -
>> >>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >>> >
>> >>> >
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
>
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