Purely out of curiosity...

[Mark Kohut]

Ms O'Connor's won 'Revelation"?

Stop me before I kill more....

On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 5:20 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> Digital Entropy?
>
>
> On Saturday, December 12, 2015, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Entropy" would be a good one too
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:26 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Not Even Twice A Day... (No one spared)
>>>
>>> Or The Clock Struck Thirteen...(1984 allusion)
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Dec 12, 2015, at 2:22 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'd like to see a Flannery O'Conner version:
>>> "Out Boxed"
>>>
>>> On Saturday, December 12, 2015, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'd like to see a Flannery O'Conner version.
>>>>
>>>> On Saturday, December 12, 2015, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Or The Secret Disintegration!....TRP, stop out for a short story!
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 1:46 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> > YES! The Clockwork Bomb.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > All kinds of resonances.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 1:38 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >> In fact, a good writer could spin this into a VERY good story.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Saturday, December 12, 2015, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> It seems likely that the son played out a set up, a test, and the
>>>>> >>> school
>>>>> >>> and the cops failed the test.  No one thought it was a bomb. The
>>>>> >>> boy said it
>>>>> >>> was a clock. Yet the authorities tried their best to get a hoax
>>>>> >>> bomb charge
>>>>> >>> to stick. They failed the test. They lost this Sting, and I'm glad
>>>>> >>> it played
>>>>> >>> out as it did.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> David Morris
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On Saturday, December 12, 2015, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>> >>> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> I sincerely hope that you are not implying that I came to my
>>>>> >>>> conclusions
>>>>> >>>> based on anything THOSE idiots wrote, or that my skepticism about
>>>>> >>>> the
>>>>> >>>> oversimplified, wrongheaded narrative that much of the mainstream
>>>>> >>>> media has
>>>>> >>>> chosen to run with in this case puts me on par with the brothers
>>>>> >>>> and ancient
>>>>> >>>> alien true believers on this pathetically benighted website.
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> J
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>> On Dec 12, 2015 8:19 AM, "Elisabeth Romberg" <eromberg at mac.com>
>>>>> >>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Clock-boy was also the subject on FreemanTV with Jamie Hanshaw
>>>>> >>>>> last
>>>>> >>>>> Saturday.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> http://freemantv.com/muslim-attacks-believe-it-or-else-jamie-hanshaw/
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> 12. des. 2015 kl. 07.13 skrev Steven Koteff
>>>>> >>>>> <steviekoteff at gmail.com>:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> It is scary just in how much it reveals about how reactionary
>>>>> >>>>> we've
>>>>> >>>>> become.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> You know, in a really peaceable society, people remember that
>>>>> >>>>> there's a
>>>>> >>>>> difference between being arrested and undergoing something that
>>>>> >>>>> requires
>>>>> >>>>> damages--that's only supposed to happen once you get convicted. A
>>>>> >>>>> person who
>>>>> >>>>> committed no crime occasionally being brought in for questioning
>>>>> >>>>> and then
>>>>> >>>>> released is an unavoidable part of even the most utopian
>>>>> >>>>> investigatory
>>>>> >>>>> system (you might call it, ahem, an inherent vice).
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Was there any suggestion or indication that, aside from the
>>>>> >>>>> arrest being
>>>>> >>>>> wrongful in the first place, he was improperly handled/treated?
>>>>> >>>>> There is
>>>>> >>>>> this from the ArtVoice thing:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> "I asked if I could talk to or speak to my son and they told me,
>>>>> >>>>>> 'No,
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> not right now' because they were taking his fingerprints and
>>>>> >>>>>> asking
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> him questions," Mohamed said.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> If that's true (there's no time frame given I don't think) is
>>>>> >>>>> that
>>>>> >>>>> outside normal/proper operating procedures?
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Don't know if it constitutes the 'torture' the dad is quoted as
>>>>> >>>>> suggesting.
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Steven Koteff
>>>>> >>>>> <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> All your clarifications are noted, and important--I should've
>>>>> >>>>>> been
>>>>> >>>>>> carefuller about them in the first place.
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:02 AM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>> >>>>>> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> But that's kind of my point. Me and you paying attention to
>>>>> >>>>>>> this is
>>>>> >>>>>>> meaningless. The MEDIA (95% of which is pushing a false
>>>>> >>>>>>> narrative) are
>>>>> >>>>>>> the ones who should never have run with this. If they hadn't,
>>>>> >>>>>>> then we
>>>>> >>>>>>> wouldn't be having to discuss it.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> And anyway, in the Big Picture, NOTHING really matters, does
>>>>> >>>>>>> it? So
>>>>> >>>>>>> why even bring it up in this particular context?
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> J.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> PS - Further clarification... I never claimed that the Mohammed
>>>>> >>>>>>> family
>>>>> >>>>>>> planned any of this in advance, and I don't know anyone who
>>>>> >>>>>>> does. The
>>>>> >>>>>>> opportunity simply presented itself, and they ran with it. No
>>>>> >>>>>>> need for
>>>>> >>>>>>> any complicated conspiracy or plan. It's just that, as soon as
>>>>> >>>>>>> the
>>>>> >>>>>>> media jumped on Ahmed's alleged "mistreatment", THAT's when the
>>>>> >>>>>>> conniving for money began. But that doesn't let Ahmed off the
>>>>> >>>>>>> hook for
>>>>> >>>>>>> his shitty behavior.
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:48 AM, Steven Koteff
>>>>> >>>>>>> <steviekoteff at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>> > I guess I'm curious also why this particular case is so
>>>>> >>>>>>> > exigent, if
>>>>> >>>>>>> > it is as
>>>>> >>>>>>> > simple as the kid and his father are con artists, or
>>>>> >>>>>>> > malicious
>>>>> >>>>>>> > provocateurs.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>>>>> > If that's the case, then the wrongdoing is a relatively
>>>>> >>>>>>> > simple one,
>>>>> >>>>>>> > and
>>>>> >>>>>>> > committed on a relatively small scale (that is, by one or two
>>>>> >>>>>>> > people, as
>>>>> >>>>>>> > opposed to the broader/less addressable alternative that it's
>>>>> >>>>>>> > a
>>>>> >>>>>>> > systemic
>>>>> >>>>>>> > problem). People filing a ridiculous lawsuit--happens all the
>>>>> >>>>>>> > time.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>>>>> > If that's the case, why does this particular one deserve more
>>>>> >>>>>>> > of my
>>>>> >>>>>>> > attention (which I'm giving it) than, say, climate talks,
>>>>> >>>>>>> > what Trump
>>>>> >>>>>>> > means
>>>>> >>>>>>> > for America, this Shkreli asshole, etc., all of which seem to
>>>>> >>>>>>> > be of
>>>>> >>>>>>> > more
>>>>> >>>>>>> > pressing concern to the country than just a single father and
>>>>> >>>>>>> > son
>>>>> >>>>>>> > acting
>>>>> >>>>>>> > wrongly and in a way that did not really physically endanger
>>>>> >>>>>>> > anyone.
>>>>> >>>>>>> > I mean
>>>>> >>>>>>> > I guess the fact that the case is so zeitgeisty sort of gives
>>>>> >>>>>>> > it its
>>>>> >>>>>>> > own
>>>>> >>>>>>> > exigence, right or wrong, and of course we should always be
>>>>> >>>>>>> > on the
>>>>> >>>>>>> > side of
>>>>> >>>>>>> > truth prevailing, but...
>>>>> >>>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>>>>> > I dunno. I'm not saying it's wrong to have the stance that
>>>>> >>>>>>> > the
>>>>> >>>>>>> > family should
>>>>> >>>>>>> > get nothing and should maybe be punished in some way. I do
>>>>> >>>>>>> > not even
>>>>> >>>>>>> > think
>>>>> >>>>>>> > the ends-justify-the-means thing (meaning that maybe the
>>>>> >>>>>>> > attention
>>>>> >>>>>>> > this gets
>>>>> >>>>>>> > helps lead us in the direction of more tolerance, of more
>>>>> >>>>>>> > peace, of
>>>>> >>>>>>> > less
>>>>> >>>>>>> > systemic prejudice and injustice, etc...) is a good
>>>>> >>>>>>> > counterargument
>>>>> >>>>>>> > if it
>>>>> >>>>>>> > depends on us accepting or ignoring something untrue--I do
>>>>> >>>>>>> > think the
>>>>> >>>>>>> > distinction should be made. But I guess I'm saying it feels
>>>>> >>>>>>> > like the
>>>>> >>>>>>> > swing
>>>>> >>>>>>> > in the other direction has been more than a return to rest or
>>>>> >>>>>>> > even
>>>>> >>>>>>> > an equal
>>>>> >>>>>>> > sort of pendulum-swing, but has been additional enmity and
>>>>> >>>>>>> > attention, also
>>>>> >>>>>>> > coming before all the facts are known, maybe.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>>>>> >
>>>>> >>>>>>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Steven Koteff
>>>>> >>>>>>> > <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> Do you think there is room for both parties to have somehow
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> acted
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> wrongly?
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> I.e. Ahmed and his father were being deliberately
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> provocative (to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> the end
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> of money and attention or whatever else) in Ahmed's bringing
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> clock to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> school and repeatedly calling attention to it,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> but also that the teachers and/or police (who as should be
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> noted
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> knew
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> Ahmed much better than we do) were, at some turn, possibly
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> less
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> generous
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> than they could've been? Let's say Ahmed is routinely a pain
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> in the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> ass and
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> the source of small-scale mischief (that is, suspendable and
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> outrageous
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> offenses but something short of taking lives) and possibly a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> bad
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> kid, like a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> true-blue asshole. This seems true if he is guilty of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> deliberately
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> inciting
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> panic or whatever. (And if we can use the egregiousness of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> lawsuit to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> retroactively inform our judgment of his character at time
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> clock-display,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> then we can also use keep going, by a sort of syllogism, to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> retroactively
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> use it to assume that maybe he was just an obvious asshole
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> from the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> start.)
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> If that's all true, then the teachers are possibly
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> collectively
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> sick of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> his shit. Maybe one or several of them are having
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> particularly
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> rough days
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> and so their patience is thin (this seems to be a fair
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> possibility
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> in the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> case of high school teachers who have to deal with dozens of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> students like
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> Ahmed a day). And so maybe, despite having never actually
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> thinking
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> it is
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> anything more dangerous than a clock that looks like an
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> explosive
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> device,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> they flex just a bit more bureaucratic muscle than they
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> needed to.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> (We think that race/religion are the only things that can
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> guide
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> decisions
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> like this, but in the case of a student and his school's
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> faculty,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> likely
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> their personal biases toward him are just as influential
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> [though of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> course
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> those are guided by any biases they might have toward his
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> race/religion,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> etc.]).
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> Maybe there are one or several points at which someone
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> could've
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> just said,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> "Ahmed, you're being an asshole, give me the clock, I'm
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> putting it
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> in my
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> desk until the end of the day." But then, given the zero
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> tolerance
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> thing,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> there is a point at which this thing has too much momentum
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> to just
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> let go...
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> I don't know. I mean that sincerely--I really don't. I think
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> account
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> of things you posted indicates that Ahmed and his father
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> acted
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> wrongly. I
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> also think there is room in there for the teachers and
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> police not
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> just to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> have been victims but to have been sort of...punitively
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> trigger-happy. I say
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> this as someone who also went to junior high, and to high
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> school,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> in the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> 21st century, in a Union state, and who witnessed open
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> enmity from
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> teachers
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> toward particular students for reasons like: A) the kid is
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> black,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> B) the kid
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> is not smart, C) the kid is hyperactive, D) the teacher
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> seems to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> have an
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> unhappy disposition as is, E)tc.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> I think, as a society, we are not well equipped to deal with
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> situations
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> this nuanced--in which multiple parties might have acted
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> wrongly.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> Of course
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> many such situations are probably like this to an extent.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> There
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> are, I'm
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> guessing, several minorities who were acting like assholes,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> possibly very
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> high, being violent and unpredictable, making threats,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> handling (if
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> not
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> using) weapons, who were killed by police officers, who
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> might not
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> have been
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> killed had they been white.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >You've emphasized twice that the sources are 'mainstream.'
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >Why is that? To indicate that it is an unbiased take (as
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > opposed
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >to a really political, say, blog) or to imply that it is
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > more
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >stringently fact checked or...
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> I mention it because, as someone who was "internet famous"
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> between
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> 1999 and 2006 (peak years 2000-2003) as sole author and
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> content
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> provider of a quite successful proto-blog email newsletter
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> (The
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> Daily
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> Dirt), I am intimately aware of and particularly sensitive
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> to the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> (ahem) "liberties" taken by the reactionary right-wing side
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> of the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> blog-and-comment-o-sphere. I spent much of my seven years
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> as Jerky
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> LeBoeuf (coinciding as they did with the Dubya preznitcy)
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> debunking
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> and fact-checking the likes of Drudge Report, Fox News,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> Rush
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> Limbaugh,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> Free Republic, Little Green Footballs, and all the rest of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> then-nascent ultra-conservative first-gen blog-rolls. So I
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> would
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> hate
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> to be mistaken as one of those. On the other hand, I am
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> currently
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> on
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> the edge of despair due to so many of my former friends,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> readers
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> and
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> other allies behaving as left-leaning versions of the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> assholes I
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> mention above, ever ready to assume the worst of any
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> institution
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> (or
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> cis-gendered white male), accept any and all claims to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> victimhood
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> as
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> valid, and basically display the same kind of ravening,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> drool-flecked
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> howling, pack mentality, as if they've torn a page from the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> main
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> stylebook of the turn-of-the-millennium Conservative
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> Movementarians.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >It's hard, in something this complicated, to rely on
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > second-
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >(and third-, and...)hand reportage. When everyone involved
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >has so much at stake now (even if the teachers acted 100%
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >rightly, they're now in a situation where they are
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > probably
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >compelled to act and testify in their own self-interest,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > just for
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > protection).
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> Yes. And that's why I always try to reason these things out
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> for
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> myself, with as cool a head as humanly possible. In this
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> case, for
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> instance, I asked myself, would it be REASONABLE for a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> teacher to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> believe that someone who brought such a thing into class
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> was up to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> some kind of mischief? As soon as I saw the "clock" in
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> question...
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> it
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> was clear to me that, OF COURSE the teachers were right to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> be
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> suspicious. The thing could not possibly look less like a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> clock.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> The
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> only way it could look more like a cliche'd action movie
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> bomb was
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> if
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> it was a bowling ball with a firecracker sticking out of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> the top.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> So,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> next step for me, if the teachers were correct in
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> SUSPECTING
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> POSSIBLE
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> BAD INTENT, then were they right to call in the police? It
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> turns
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> out,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> considering the school district's zero tolerance policy,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> they
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> probably
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> didn't even have a choice. Same as if they'd caught him
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> with
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> booze, or
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> a joint, or if he'd pinched a female student's bottom and
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> she'd
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> complained... the authorities HAD TO BE called in. And they
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> were.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> Now,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> that leads us to the question of whether the authorities
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> did
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> anything
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> wrong by taking Ahmed into custody, or putting him in
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> handcuffs,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> or
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> keeping him from his parents for an hour and a half. And
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> you know
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> what? There is NO legislation that prevents police from
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> detaining
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> or
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> handcuffing a 14 year old. This should be patently obvious
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> anyone
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> who went through junior high school (as it was to me, as I
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> myself
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> have
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> personally witnessed teacher and police behavior towards
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> 13/14/15
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> year
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> olds that was FAR more egregious and unjust than what poor
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> Ahmed
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> went
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> through). But apparently most of the members of the media
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> who have
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> been reporting on this story were hot-house flowers who
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> grew up in
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> social justice enclaves where they were taught (hahaha)
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> that life
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> should be "fair" or something, or that if you have a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> problem with
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> authority, you can always sue the bastards. Well, maybe
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> that's
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> true. I
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> certainly hope it isn't, because for the Muhammed family to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> get
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> one
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> thin dime out of this would be a travesty of justice and a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> blow
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> against common sense, in my opinion as an anti-racist,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> anti-fascist,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> authority-skeptic liberal of long standing.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> Sincerely;
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> J
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Steven Koteff
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > I don't mean to imply anything. Just thanking you for
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > doing the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > research--I
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > am in that gray area of being curious enough to want to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > know the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > timeline
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > without being curious enough (or having enough time) to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > do much
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > digging
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > myself.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > And also, because you seem much more up on this than I
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > am, I am
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > curious
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > hear your takeaway.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > I think if everything in that article is right then it
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > kind of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > seems
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > like it
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > was at best incredibly ignorant and irresponsible on the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > part of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > dad and
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > the son. At worst (and the direction it seems to lean, if
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > article
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > is
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > right) possibly a deliberately provocative act on the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > part of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > father. To
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > what end? Is it just about money and attention? I
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > actually
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > think, if
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > provocation is deliberate, it betrays not just
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > run-of-the-mill
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > selfish
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > motives but also personal disturbance on the part of the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > father,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > and
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > the kid
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > too.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > But all that comes with the caveat that the account is
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > true.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > You've
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > emphasized twice that the sources are 'mainstream.' Why
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > is that?
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > To
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > indicate
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > that it is an unbiased take (as opposed to a really
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > political,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > say,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > blog) or
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > to imply that it is more stringently fact checked or...
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > It's hard, in something this complicated, to rely on
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > second-(and
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > third-,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > and...)hand reportage. When everyone involved has so much
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > at
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > stake now
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > (even
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > if the teachers acted 100% rightly, they're now in a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > situation
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > where
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > they
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > are probably compelled to act and testify in their own
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > self-interest,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > just
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > for protection).
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > I read that article saying that the police said
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > something, but
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > at least
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > half
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > of me is thinking I should be asking, "But who says the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > police
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > said
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > that?"
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> > wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Here's a handy timeline from the ArtVoice blog. The
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> facts all
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> check
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> out (meaning the author hasn't misrepresented the mostly
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> mainstream
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> articles to which he refers):
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> On the morning of Sept 14, Mohamed El Hassan Mohamed
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> drove his
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> son
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed to school and at that time, according to NBC
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Dallas/Ft.Worth,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Mohamed "encouraged him to demonstrate his gift of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> technology"
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> at the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> school. He was referring to a small plain metal case,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> inside of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> which
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> contained the hastily arranged and unshielded electronic
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> components of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> a 1980's Micronta digital alarm clock. A device Ahmed
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> would
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> repeatedly
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> insist he threw together the night before in just 15
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> minutes
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> from of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> "scraps" laying around his house, a device that he
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> himself
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> considered
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> to appear suspicious and threatening.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Defying common sense, it appears that Mohamed, the man
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> who runs
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> National Reform Party of Sudan, who is considered an
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> enlightened
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> scholar in Sudan, who ran for its presidency twice in
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> the last
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> 5
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> years, whose daughter was suspended from school for a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> bomb
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> threat,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> whose son was detained and suspended for multiple
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> disciplinary
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> problems and electronic pranks, in a town recently
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> rocked by a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> double
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> murder honor killing and lies 25 minutes from the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Garland TX
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Jihadi
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> attack, on the first day back to school after the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> anniversary
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> of 9-11,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> encourages his son to bring in a nondescript metal case
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> with a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> timer
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> and loose wiring inside without being asked to by any
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> teacher,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> device even his son admits looked threatening and
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> suspicious.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Next we are told by Ahmed that he shows the device to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> his 1st
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> period
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Science teacher who sensitively and politely tells him
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> device is
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> "nice" but it looks like a bomb and so he should put it
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> away
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> and not
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> take it out and show it to anyone else at school.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> According to Mark Cuban who spoke with an Irving
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> resident who's
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> friend
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> is a teacher in Mac Arthur H.S., Ahmed proceeded to show
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> off
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> device to each teacher all the way to 6th period where
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> in
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> English
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> class, Ahmed claims to have plugged the device into the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> wall
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> outlet
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> and set the alarm to go off in the middle of class "to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> show a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> friend".
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> When the teacher reacted to the disruption he "unplugged
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> it
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> right
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> away". After showing the English teacher what caused the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> disruption,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> the teacher told him it looks like a bomb, that it is
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> making
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> her
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> nervous and would make others nervous, and to put it
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> away in
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> his
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> backpack, to which Ahmed said "I don't think it looks
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> like a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> bomb". At
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> the end of class the device was confiscated and the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Principal
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> alerted.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> The Irving school system adheres to a zero tolerance
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> policy
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> regarding
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> threatening devices, and being that the possession of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> such a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> device
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> with intent to alarm others is a criminal offense in
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Texas, the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> police
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> were called to question Ahmed and determine what his
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> intentions
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> were.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Later 3 teachers would sign a complaint to the police
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> about a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> hoax
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> bomb, as the Principal decided to contact the police on
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> issue.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> The police arrived at school and entered the conference
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> room
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> where
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed was detained and one officer claimed "that is who
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> I
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> thought it
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> was". Likely referring to Ahmed's past troubles and his
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> family's
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> notoriety. The police questioned Ahmed, and claimed he
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> was not
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> forthcoming, passive aggressive, and would not directly
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> answer
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> their
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> questions. They decided to arrest him for possession of
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> a hoax
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> bomb
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> and bring him to the police station where they would
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> continue
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> their
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> investigation to determine whether he intended to raise
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> alarm
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> with his
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> device, a Class A misdemeanor.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Somehow or other it appears Ahmed's 18 year old sister
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Eyman
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> found out
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> that Ahmed was being taken to the police station. There
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> is an
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> iconic
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> photo of Ahmed in handcuffs taken by Eyman, and some
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> captions
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> under
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> that photo indicate it was taken at the police station.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> This
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> implies
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> his sister arrived shortly after Ahmed arrived, because
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> he
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> would not
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> have been in handcuffs after he was released without
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> charge an
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> hour
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> later. There is also speculation Eyman took the photo as
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> was
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> leaving the school in handcuffs.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed's father claims the first he heard of his son's
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> problem
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> was from
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> a phone call from the police. We do not know if he
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> arrived with
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> or
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> separate from Eyman. It is hard to believe Eyman heard
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> about
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> incident and arrived at the police station to take that
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> photo
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> and
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> never alerted her father. If Eyman only knew through her
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> father, this
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> would mean they both arrived at the station in time to
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> see
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> before he went in a private room for questioning.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Improbable
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> but
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> possible. The father's account follows.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> **The first he heard of it was when he received a call
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> from
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> police,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> who said his son was being charged with having a hoax
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> bomb,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Mohamed
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> said.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> He rushed to the police station, where he saw his son
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> "surrounded by
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> five police and he was handcuffed," the father said.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed told
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> his
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> father he'd asked to phone him but the police told him
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> he could
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> not
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> because he was under arrest, Mohamed said.
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> "I asked if I could talk to or speak to my son and they
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> told
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> me, 'No,
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> not right now' because they were taking his fingerprints
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> and
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> asking
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> him questions," Mohamed said. "I asked if I could see
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> the thing
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> they
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> were calling a bomb. The police never let me even see it
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> but I
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> knew
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> what my son brought to school. It was an alarm clock
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> that he
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> made. He
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> wakes up with it most mornings. **
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> Here we have Mohamed contradicting his son's claim the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> device
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> was
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> hastily thrown together the night before. His
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> credibility as a
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> responsible parent and supervisor of his child already
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> strained
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> to the
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> limit, he goes on to claim, "my son was hurt and
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>> >> tortured and
>>>>> >>>>>>> >>&
>>
>>
>
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Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l