Purely out of curiosity...

[Mark Thibodeau]

The kid was detained for less than 2 hours. How is that doing their
best to get a hoax bomb charge to stick? And saying it was a clock
doesn't make what he did acceptable. Did you even read any of the
timelines and commentary I posted? How can you possibly be GLAD it
played out as it did? You ENJOY being lied to by the media? You're
that comfortable in your ideological hug-box?

J

On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 1:35 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> It seems likely that the son played out a set up, a test, and the school and
> the cops failed the test.  No one thought it was a bomb. The boy said it was
> a clock. Yet the authorities tried their best to get a hoax bomb charge to
> stick. They failed the test. They lost this Sting, and I'm glad it played
> out as it did.
>
> David Morris
>
>
> On Saturday, December 12, 2015, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> I sincerely hope that you are not implying that I came to my conclusions
>> based on anything THOSE idiots wrote, or that my skepticism about the
>> oversimplified, wrongheaded narrative that much of the mainstream media has
>> chosen to run with in this case puts me on par with the brothers and ancient
>> alien true believers on this pathetically benighted website.
>>
>> J
>>
>> On Dec 12, 2015 8:19 AM, "Elisabeth Romberg" <eromberg at mac.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Clock-boy was also the subject on FreemanTV with Jamie Hanshaw last
>>> Saturday.
>>>
>>> http://freemantv.com/muslim-attacks-believe-it-or-else-jamie-hanshaw/
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 12. des. 2015 kl. 07.13 skrev Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> It is scary just in how much it reveals about how reactionary we've
>>> become.
>>>
>>> You know, in a really peaceable society, people remember that there's a
>>> difference between being arrested and undergoing something that requires
>>> damages--that's only supposed to happen once you get convicted. A person who
>>> committed no crime occasionally being brought in for questioning and then
>>> released is an unavoidable part of even the most utopian investigatory
>>> system (you might call it, ahem, an inherent vice).
>>>
>>> Was there any suggestion or indication that, aside from the arrest being
>>> wrongful in the first place, he was improperly handled/treated? There is
>>> this from the ArtVoice thing:
>>>
>>>> "I asked if I could talk to or speak to my son and they told me, 'No,
>>>>
>>>> not right now' because they were taking his fingerprints and asking
>>>>
>>>> him questions," Mohamed said.
>>>
>>>
>>> If that's true (there's no time frame given I don't think) is that
>>> outside normal/proper operating procedures?
>>>
>>> Don't know if it constitutes the 'torture' the dad is quoted as
>>> suggesting.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:05 AM, Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> All your clarifications are noted, and important--I should've been
>>>> carefuller about them in the first place.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:02 AM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> But that's kind of my point. Me and you paying attention to this is
>>>>> meaningless. The MEDIA (95% of which is pushing a false narrative) are
>>>>> the ones who should never have run with this. If they hadn't, then we
>>>>> wouldn't be having to discuss it.
>>>>>
>>>>> And anyway, in the Big Picture, NOTHING really matters, does it? So
>>>>> why even bring it up in this particular context?
>>>>>
>>>>> J.
>>>>>
>>>>> PS - Further clarification... I never claimed that the Mohammed family
>>>>> planned any of this in advance, and I don't know anyone who does. The
>>>>> opportunity simply presented itself, and they ran with it. No need for
>>>>> any complicated conspiracy or plan. It's just that, as soon as the
>>>>> media jumped on Ahmed's alleged "mistreatment", THAT's when the
>>>>> conniving for money began. But that doesn't let Ahmed off the hook for
>>>>> his shitty behavior.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Sat, Dec 12, 2015 at 12:48 AM, Steven Koteff
>>>>> <steviekoteff at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> > I guess I'm curious also why this particular case is so exigent, if
>>>>> > it is as
>>>>> > simple as the kid and his father are con artists, or malicious
>>>>> > provocateurs.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > If that's the case, then the wrongdoing is a relatively simple one,
>>>>> > and
>>>>> > committed on a relatively small scale (that is, by one or two people,
>>>>> > as
>>>>> > opposed to the broader/less addressable alternative that it's a
>>>>> > systemic
>>>>> > problem). People filing a ridiculous lawsuit--happens all the time.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > If that's the case, why does this particular one deserve more of my
>>>>> > attention (which I'm giving it) than, say, climate talks, what Trump
>>>>> > means
>>>>> > for America, this Shkreli asshole, etc., all of which seem to be of
>>>>> > more
>>>>> > pressing concern to the country than just a single father and son
>>>>> > acting
>>>>> > wrongly and in a way that did not really physically endanger anyone.
>>>>> > I mean
>>>>> > I guess the fact that the case is so zeitgeisty sort of gives it its
>>>>> > own
>>>>> > exigence, right or wrong, and of course we should always be on the
>>>>> > side of
>>>>> > truth prevailing, but...
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I dunno. I'm not saying it's wrong to have the stance that the family
>>>>> > should
>>>>> > get nothing and should maybe be punished in some way. I do not even
>>>>> > think
>>>>> > the ends-justify-the-means thing (meaning that maybe the attention
>>>>> > this gets
>>>>> > helps lead us in the direction of more tolerance, of more peace, of
>>>>> > less
>>>>> > systemic prejudice and injustice, etc...) is a good counterargument
>>>>> > if it
>>>>> > depends on us accepting or ignoring something untrue--I do think the
>>>>> > distinction should be made. But I guess I'm saying it feels like the
>>>>> > swing
>>>>> > in the other direction has been more than a return to rest or even an
>>>>> > equal
>>>>> > sort of pendulum-swing, but has been additional enmity and attention,
>>>>> > also
>>>>> > coming before all the facts are known, maybe.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:41 PM, Steven Koteff
>>>>> > <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Do you think there is room for both parties to have somehow acted
>>>>> >> wrongly?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I.e. Ahmed and his father were being deliberately provocative (to
>>>>> >> the end
>>>>> >> of money and attention or whatever else) in Ahmed's bringing the
>>>>> >> clock to
>>>>> >> school and repeatedly calling attention to it,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> but also that the teachers and/or police (who as should be noted
>>>>> >> knew
>>>>> >> Ahmed much better than we do) were, at some turn, possibly less
>>>>> >> generous
>>>>> >> than they could've been? Let's say Ahmed is routinely a pain in the
>>>>> >> ass and
>>>>> >> the source of small-scale mischief (that is, suspendable and
>>>>> >> outrageous
>>>>> >> offenses but something short of taking lives) and possibly a bad
>>>>> >> kid, like a
>>>>> >> true-blue asshole. This seems true if he is guilty of deliberately
>>>>> >> inciting
>>>>> >> panic or whatever. (And if we can use the egregiousness of the
>>>>> >> lawsuit to
>>>>> >> retroactively inform our judgment of his character at time of
>>>>> >> clock-display,
>>>>> >> then we can also use keep going, by a sort of syllogism, to
>>>>> >> retroactively
>>>>> >> use it to assume that maybe he was just an obvious asshole from the
>>>>> >> start.)
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> If that's all true, then the teachers are possibly collectively sick
>>>>> >> of
>>>>> >> his shit. Maybe one or several of them are having particularly rough
>>>>> >> days
>>>>> >> and so their patience is thin (this seems to be a fair possibility
>>>>> >> in the
>>>>> >> case of high school teachers who have to deal with dozens of
>>>>> >> students like
>>>>> >> Ahmed a day). And so maybe, despite having never actually thinking
>>>>> >> it is
>>>>> >> anything more dangerous than a clock that looks like an explosive
>>>>> >> device,
>>>>> >> they flex just a bit more bureaucratic muscle than they needed to.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> (We think that race/religion are the only things that can guide
>>>>> >> decisions
>>>>> >> like this, but in the case of a student and his school's faculty,
>>>>> >> likely
>>>>> >> their personal biases toward him are just as influential [though of
>>>>> >> course
>>>>> >> those are guided by any biases they might have toward his
>>>>> >> race/religion,
>>>>> >> etc.]).
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Maybe there are one or several points at which someone could've just
>>>>> >> said,
>>>>> >> "Ahmed, you're being an asshole, give me the clock, I'm putting it
>>>>> >> in my
>>>>> >> desk until the end of the day." But then, given the zero tolerance
>>>>> >> thing,
>>>>> >> there is a point at which this thing has too much momentum to just
>>>>> >> let go...
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I don't know. I mean that sincerely--I really don't. I think the
>>>>> >> account
>>>>> >> of things you posted indicates that Ahmed and his father acted
>>>>> >> wrongly. I
>>>>> >> also think there is room in there for the teachers and police not
>>>>> >> just to
>>>>> >> have been victims but to have been sort of...punitively
>>>>> >> trigger-happy. I say
>>>>> >> this as someone who also went to junior high, and to high school, in
>>>>> >> the
>>>>> >> 21st century, in a Union state, and who witnessed open enmity from
>>>>> >> teachers
>>>>> >> toward particular students for reasons like: A) the kid is black, B)
>>>>> >> the kid
>>>>> >> is not smart, C) the kid is hyperactive, D) the teacher seems to
>>>>> >> have an
>>>>> >> unhappy disposition as is, E)tc.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I think, as a society, we are not well equipped to deal with
>>>>> >> situations
>>>>> >> this nuanced--in which multiple parties might have acted wrongly. Of
>>>>> >> course
>>>>> >> many such situations are probably like this to an extent. There are,
>>>>> >> I'm
>>>>> >> guessing, several minorities who were acting like assholes, possibly
>>>>> >> very
>>>>> >> high, being violent and unpredictable, making threats, handling (if
>>>>> >> not
>>>>> >> using) weapons, who were killed by police officers, who might not
>>>>> >> have been
>>>>> >> killed had they been white.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:22 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>> >> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >You've emphasized twice that the sources are 'mainstream.'
>>>>> >>> >Why is that? To indicate that it is an unbiased take (as opposed
>>>>> >>> >to a really political, say, blog) or to imply that it is more
>>>>> >>> >stringently fact checked or...
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> I mention it because, as someone who was "internet famous" between
>>>>> >>> 1999 and 2006 (peak years 2000-2003) as sole author and content
>>>>> >>> provider of a quite successful proto-blog email newsletter (The
>>>>> >>> Daily
>>>>> >>> Dirt), I am intimately aware of and particularly sensitive to the
>>>>> >>> (ahem) "liberties" taken by the reactionary right-wing side of the
>>>>> >>> blog-and-comment-o-sphere. I spent much of my seven years as Jerky
>>>>> >>> LeBoeuf (coinciding as they did with the Dubya preznitcy) debunking
>>>>> >>> and fact-checking the likes of Drudge Report, Fox News, Rush
>>>>> >>> Limbaugh,
>>>>> >>> Free Republic, Little Green Footballs, and all the rest of the
>>>>> >>> then-nascent ultra-conservative first-gen blog-rolls. So I would
>>>>> >>> hate
>>>>> >>> to be mistaken as one of those. On the other hand, I am currently
>>>>> >>> on
>>>>> >>> the edge of despair due to so many of my former friends, readers
>>>>> >>> and
>>>>> >>> other allies behaving as left-leaning versions of the assholes I
>>>>> >>> mention above, ever ready to assume the worst of any institution
>>>>> >>> (or
>>>>> >>> cis-gendered white male), accept any and all claims to victimhood
>>>>> >>> as
>>>>> >>> valid, and basically display the same kind of ravening,
>>>>> >>> drool-flecked
>>>>> >>> howling, pack mentality, as if they've torn a page from the main
>>>>> >>> stylebook of the turn-of-the-millennium Conservative
>>>>> >>> Movementarians.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> >It's hard, in something this complicated, to rely on second-
>>>>> >>> >(and third-, and...)hand reportage. When everyone involved
>>>>> >>> >has so much at stake now (even if the teachers acted 100%
>>>>> >>> >rightly, they're now in a situation where they are probably
>>>>> >>> >compelled to act and testify in their own self-interest, just for
>>>>> >>> > protection).
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Yes. And that's why I always try to reason these things out for
>>>>> >>> myself, with as cool a head as humanly possible. In this case, for
>>>>> >>> instance, I asked myself, would it be REASONABLE for a teacher to
>>>>> >>> believe that someone who brought such a thing into class was up to
>>>>> >>> some kind of mischief? As soon as I saw the "clock" in question...
>>>>> >>> it
>>>>> >>> was clear to me that, OF COURSE the teachers were right to be
>>>>> >>> suspicious. The thing could not possibly look less like a clock.
>>>>> >>> The
>>>>> >>> only way it could look more like a cliche'd action movie bomb was
>>>>> >>> if
>>>>> >>> it was a bowling ball with a firecracker sticking out of the top.
>>>>> >>> So,
>>>>> >>> next step for me, if the teachers were correct in SUSPECTING
>>>>> >>> POSSIBLE
>>>>> >>> BAD INTENT, then were they right to call in the police? It turns
>>>>> >>> out,
>>>>> >>> considering the school district's zero tolerance policy, they
>>>>> >>> probably
>>>>> >>> didn't even have a choice. Same as if they'd caught him with booze,
>>>>> >>> or
>>>>> >>> a joint, or if he'd pinched a female student's bottom and she'd
>>>>> >>> complained... the authorities HAD TO BE called in. And they were.
>>>>> >>> Now,
>>>>> >>> that leads us to the question of whether the authorities did
>>>>> >>> anything
>>>>> >>> wrong by taking Ahmed into custody, or putting him in handcuffs, or
>>>>> >>> keeping him from his parents for an hour and a half. And you know
>>>>> >>> what? There is NO legislation that prevents police from detaining
>>>>> >>> or
>>>>> >>> handcuffing a 14 year old. This should be patently obvious to
>>>>> >>> anyone
>>>>> >>> who went through junior high school (as it was to me, as I myself
>>>>> >>> have
>>>>> >>> personally witnessed teacher and police behavior towards 13/14/15
>>>>> >>> year
>>>>> >>> olds that was FAR more egregious and unjust than what poor Ahmed
>>>>> >>> went
>>>>> >>> through). But apparently most of the members of the media who have
>>>>> >>> been reporting on this story were hot-house flowers who grew up in
>>>>> >>> social justice enclaves where they were taught (hahaha) that life
>>>>> >>> should be "fair" or something, or that if you have a problem with
>>>>> >>> authority, you can always sue the bastards. Well, maybe that's
>>>>> >>> true. I
>>>>> >>> certainly hope it isn't, because for the Muhammed family to get one
>>>>> >>> thin dime out of this would be a travesty of justice and a blow
>>>>> >>> against common sense, in my opinion as an anti-racist,
>>>>> >>> anti-fascist,
>>>>> >>> authority-skeptic liberal of long standing.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Sincerely;
>>>>> >>> J
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:52 PM, Steven Koteff
>>>>> >>> <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>> wrote:
>>>>> >>> > I don't mean to imply anything. Just thanking you for doing the
>>>>> >>> > research--I
>>>>> >>> > am in that gray area of being curious enough to want to know the
>>>>> >>> > timeline
>>>>> >>> > without being curious enough (or having enough time) to do much
>>>>> >>> > digging
>>>>> >>> > myself.
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > And also, because you seem much more up on this than I am, I am
>>>>> >>> > curious
>>>>> >>> > to
>>>>> >>> > hear your takeaway.
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > I think if everything in that article is right then it kind of
>>>>> >>> > seems
>>>>> >>> > like it
>>>>> >>> > was at best incredibly ignorant and irresponsible on the part of
>>>>> >>> > the
>>>>> >>> > dad and
>>>>> >>> > the son. At worst (and the direction it seems to lean, if the
>>>>> >>> > article
>>>>> >>> > is
>>>>> >>> > right) possibly a deliberately provocative act on the part of the
>>>>> >>> > father. To
>>>>> >>> > what end? Is it just about money and attention? I actually think,
>>>>> >>> > if
>>>>> >>> > the
>>>>> >>> > provocation is deliberate, it betrays not just run-of-the-mill
>>>>> >>> > selfish
>>>>> >>> > motives but also personal disturbance on the part of the father,
>>>>> >>> > and
>>>>> >>> > the kid
>>>>> >>> > too.
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > But all that comes with the caveat that the account is true.
>>>>> >>> > You've
>>>>> >>> > emphasized twice that the sources are 'mainstream.' Why is that?
>>>>> >>> > To
>>>>> >>> > indicate
>>>>> >>> > that it is an unbiased take (as opposed to a really political,
>>>>> >>> > say,
>>>>> >>> > blog) or
>>>>> >>> > to imply that it is more stringently fact checked or...
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > It's hard, in something this complicated, to rely on second-(and
>>>>> >>> > third-,
>>>>> >>> > and...)hand reportage. When everyone involved has so much at
>>>>> >>> > stake now
>>>>> >>> > (even
>>>>> >>> > if the teachers acted 100% rightly, they're now in a situation
>>>>> >>> > where
>>>>> >>> > they
>>>>> >>> > are probably compelled to act and testify in their own
>>>>> >>> > self-interest,
>>>>> >>> > just
>>>>> >>> > for protection).
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > I read that article saying that the police said something, but at
>>>>> >>> > least
>>>>> >>> > half
>>>>> >>> > of me is thinking I should be asking, "But who says the police
>>>>> >>> > said
>>>>> >>> > that?"
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 10:38 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>> >>> > <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>> > wrote:
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> Here's a handy timeline from the ArtVoice blog. The facts all
>>>>> >>> >> check
>>>>> >>> >> out (meaning the author hasn't misrepresented the mostly
>>>>> >>> >> mainstream
>>>>> >>> >> articles to which he refers):
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> On the morning of Sept 14, Mohamed El Hassan Mohamed drove his
>>>>> >>> >> son
>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed to school and at that time, according to NBC
>>>>> >>> >> Dallas/Ft.Worth,
>>>>> >>> >> Mohamed "encouraged him to demonstrate his gift of technology"
>>>>> >>> >> at the
>>>>> >>> >> school. He was referring to a small plain metal case, inside of
>>>>> >>> >> which
>>>>> >>> >> contained the hastily arranged and unshielded electronic
>>>>> >>> >> components of
>>>>> >>> >> a 1980's Micronta digital alarm clock. A device Ahmed would
>>>>> >>> >> repeatedly
>>>>> >>> >> insist he threw together the night before in just 15 minutes
>>>>> >>> >> from of
>>>>> >>> >> "scraps" laying around his house, a device that he himself
>>>>> >>> >> considered
>>>>> >>> >> to appear suspicious and threatening.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> Defying common sense, it appears that Mohamed, the man who runs
>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>> >>> >> National Reform Party of Sudan, who is considered an enlightened
>>>>> >>> >> scholar in Sudan, who ran for its presidency twice in the last 5
>>>>> >>> >> years, whose daughter was suspended from school for a bomb
>>>>> >>> >> threat,
>>>>> >>> >> whose son was detained and suspended for multiple disciplinary
>>>>> >>> >> problems and electronic pranks, in a town recently rocked by a
>>>>> >>> >> double
>>>>> >>> >> murder honor killing and lies 25 minutes from the Garland TX
>>>>> >>> >> Jihadi
>>>>> >>> >> attack, on the first day back to school after the anniversary of
>>>>> >>> >> 9-11,
>>>>> >>> >> encourages his son to bring in a nondescript metal case with a
>>>>> >>> >> timer
>>>>> >>> >> and loose wiring inside without being asked to by any teacher, a
>>>>> >>> >> device even his son admits looked threatening and suspicious.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> Next we are told by Ahmed that he shows the device to his 1st
>>>>> >>> >> period
>>>>> >>> >> Science teacher who sensitively and politely tells him the
>>>>> >>> >> device is
>>>>> >>> >> "nice" but it looks like a bomb and so he should put it away and
>>>>> >>> >> not
>>>>> >>> >> take it out and show it to anyone else at school.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> According to Mark Cuban who spoke with an Irving resident who's
>>>>> >>> >> friend
>>>>> >>> >> is a teacher in Mac Arthur H.S., Ahmed proceeded to show off the
>>>>> >>> >> device to each teacher all the way to 6th period where in
>>>>> >>> >> English
>>>>> >>> >> class, Ahmed claims to have plugged the device into the wall
>>>>> >>> >> outlet
>>>>> >>> >> and set the alarm to go off in the middle of class "to show a
>>>>> >>> >> friend".
>>>>> >>> >> When the teacher reacted to the disruption he "unplugged it
>>>>> >>> >> right
>>>>> >>> >> away". After showing the English teacher what caused the
>>>>> >>> >> disruption,
>>>>> >>> >> the teacher told him it looks like a bomb, that it is making her
>>>>> >>> >> nervous and would make others nervous, and to put it away in his
>>>>> >>> >> backpack, to which Ahmed said "I don't think it looks like a
>>>>> >>> >> bomb". At
>>>>> >>> >> the end of class the device was confiscated and the Principal
>>>>> >>> >> alerted.
>>>>> >>> >> The Irving school system adheres to a zero tolerance policy
>>>>> >>> >> regarding
>>>>> >>> >> threatening devices, and being that the possession of such a
>>>>> >>> >> device
>>>>> >>> >> with intent to alarm others is a criminal offense in Texas, the
>>>>> >>> >> police
>>>>> >>> >> were called to question Ahmed and determine what his intentions
>>>>> >>> >> were.
>>>>> >>> >> Later 3 teachers would sign a complaint to the police about a
>>>>> >>> >> hoax
>>>>> >>> >> bomb, as the Principal decided to contact the police on the
>>>>> >>> >> issue.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> The police arrived at school and entered the conference room
>>>>> >>> >> where
>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed was detained and one officer claimed "that is who I
>>>>> >>> >> thought it
>>>>> >>> >> was". Likely referring to Ahmed's past troubles and his family's
>>>>> >>> >> notoriety. The police questioned Ahmed, and claimed he was not
>>>>> >>> >> forthcoming, passive aggressive, and would not directly answer
>>>>> >>> >> their
>>>>> >>> >> questions. They decided to arrest him for possession of a hoax
>>>>> >>> >> bomb
>>>>> >>> >> and bring him to the police station where they would continue
>>>>> >>> >> their
>>>>> >>> >> investigation to determine whether he intended to raise alarm
>>>>> >>> >> with his
>>>>> >>> >> device, a Class A misdemeanor.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> Somehow or other it appears Ahmed's 18 year old sister Eyman
>>>>> >>> >> found out
>>>>> >>> >> that Ahmed was being taken to the police station. There is an
>>>>> >>> >> iconic
>>>>> >>> >> photo of Ahmed in handcuffs taken by Eyman, and some captions
>>>>> >>> >> under
>>>>> >>> >> that photo indicate it was taken at the police station. This
>>>>> >>> >> implies
>>>>> >>> >> his sister arrived shortly after Ahmed arrived, because he would
>>>>> >>> >> not
>>>>> >>> >> have been in handcuffs after he was released without charge an
>>>>> >>> >> hour
>>>>> >>> >> later. There is also speculation Eyman took the photo as Ahmed
>>>>> >>> >> was
>>>>> >>> >> leaving the school in handcuffs.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed's father claims the first he heard of his son's problem
>>>>> >>> >> was from
>>>>> >>> >> a phone call from the police. We do not know if he arrived with
>>>>> >>> >> or
>>>>> >>> >> separate from Eyman. It is hard to believe Eyman heard about the
>>>>> >>> >> incident and arrived at the police station to take that photo
>>>>> >>> >> and
>>>>> >>> >> never alerted her father. If Eyman only knew through her father,
>>>>> >>> >> this
>>>>> >>> >> would mean they both arrived at the station in time to see Ahmed
>>>>> >>> >> before he went in a private room for questioning. Improbable but
>>>>> >>> >> possible. The father's account follows.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> **The first he heard of it was when he received a call from
>>>>> >>> >> police,
>>>>> >>> >> who said his son was being charged with having a hoax bomb,
>>>>> >>> >> Mohamed
>>>>> >>> >> said.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> He rushed to the police station, where he saw his son
>>>>> >>> >> "surrounded by
>>>>> >>> >> five police and he was handcuffed," the father said. Ahmed told
>>>>> >>> >> his
>>>>> >>> >> father he'd asked to phone him but the police told him he could
>>>>> >>> >> not
>>>>> >>> >> because he was under arrest, Mohamed said.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> "I asked if I could talk to or speak to my son and they told me,
>>>>> >>> >> 'No,
>>>>> >>> >> not right now' because they were taking his fingerprints and
>>>>> >>> >> asking
>>>>> >>> >> him questions," Mohamed said. "I asked if I could see the thing
>>>>> >>> >> they
>>>>> >>> >> were calling a bomb. The police never let me even see it but I
>>>>> >>> >> knew
>>>>> >>> >> what my son brought to school. It was an alarm clock that he
>>>>> >>> >> made. He
>>>>> >>> >> wakes up with it most mornings. **
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> Here we have Mohamed contradicting his son's claim the device
>>>>> >>> >> was
>>>>> >>> >> hastily thrown together the night before. His credibility as a
>>>>> >>> >> responsible parent and supervisor of his child already strained
>>>>> >>> >> to the
>>>>> >>> >> limit, he goes on to claim, "my son was hurt and tortured and
>>>>> >>> >> arrested
>>>>> >>> >> and mistreated in front of his friends at school".
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> After further questioning, the police could not find anything in
>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed's statements to indicate he intended to cause alarm, and
>>>>> >>> >> released him without charge.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> The family went on to set off a social media firestorm
>>>>> >>> >> portraying
>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed as persecuted and harassed, "hurt and tortured" by
>>>>> >>> >> Islamophobic
>>>>> >>> >> xenophobic, vindictive officials from the school and police
>>>>> >>> >> station,
>>>>> >>> >> holding press conferences where suddenly their son was able to
>>>>> >>> >> speak
>>>>> >>> >> in great detail about the incident, as opposed to the "name rank
>>>>> >>> >> and
>>>>> >>> >> serial number" routine he gave the police.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> There was never a moment where Mohamed El Hassan expressed even
>>>>> >>> >> a
>>>>> >>> >> small fraction of responsibility as the parent the person at the
>>>>> >>> >> center of this incident. No apology or humility, only strident
>>>>> >>> >> arrogant and slanderous accusations issued from him. Even today
>>>>> >>> >> as
>>>>> >>> >> Ahmed has been seen laughing, joking, and smiling all across the
>>>>> >>> >> USA
>>>>> >>> >> as he visits dozens of august institutions and famous talk shows
>>>>> >>> >> that
>>>>> >>> >> roll out the red carpet for the self proclaimed "inventor of a
>>>>> >>> >> clock",
>>>>> >>> >> his family insists Ahmed is "severely traumatized" and "lacking
>>>>> >>> >> appetite and ability to sleep". Furthermore Mohamed refused to
>>>>> >>> >> accept
>>>>> >>> >> the police repeated offer to come pick up the device, while
>>>>> >>> >> hiring
>>>>> >>> >> lawyers to sue the police, in part, for refusing to release the
>>>>> >>> >> device
>>>>> >>> >> to the family. The family has refused to sign a waiver allowing
>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>> >>> >> school and police from telling their side of the story to the
>>>>> >>> >> media,
>>>>> >>> >> while they continue to offer a contradictory version that
>>>>> >>> >> evolves
>>>>> >>> >> daily, along side baseless and slanderous accusations against
>>>>> >>> >> officials.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> According to Ahmed's own words, his authority figure (Science
>>>>> >>> >> teacher)
>>>>> >>> >> confirmed Ahmed's own perception and told him his device looked
>>>>> >>> >> like a
>>>>> >>> >> bomb and not to show it to anyone. Ahmed then set the alarm on
>>>>> >>> >> the
>>>>> >>> >> device in the middle of class. He appears to have had the intent
>>>>> >>> >> to
>>>>> >>> >> evoke some reaction. His actions were reckless, and arguably
>>>>> >>> >> criminal.
>>>>> >>> >> Yet the media continues to portray him as a persecuted victim,
>>>>> >>> >> even as
>>>>> >>> >> he and his family stood in NYC with the Mayor who proclaimed
>>>>> >>> >> 9/29/2015
>>>>> >>> >> as "Ahmed day", before flying to the Middle East where they met
>>>>> >>> >> with
>>>>> >>> >> various community and political leaders (including more than one
>>>>> >>> >> with
>>>>> >>> >> a history of conducting large-scale massacres of
>>>>> >>> >> non-combatants).
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:34 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>> >>> >> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >> > And for those of you who are wondering "Where on Earth did he
>>>>> >>> >> > ever
>>>>> >>> >> > ADMIT
>>>>> >>> >> > that his creation might look SUSPICIOUS or LIKE A THREAT,
>>>>> >>> >> > Mister
>>>>> >>> >> > Smarty
>>>>> >>> >> > Pants?!", kindly jump to the 1 minute, 30 second point on this
>>>>> >>> >> > video
>>>>> >>> >> > to
>>>>> >>> >> > see
>>>>> >>> >> > where he basically admits that he knew the thing would
>>>>> >>> >> > probably
>>>>> >>> >> > freak
>>>>> >>> >> > people
>>>>> >>> >> > out.
>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>> >>> >> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8bGeBk8Fus0
>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>> >>> >> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 11:30 PM, Mark Thibodeau
>>>>> >>> >> > <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>> >> > wrote:
>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>> >>> >> >> I think a more pertinent question might be, please cite where
>>>>> >>> >> >> it's
>>>>> >>> >> >> illegal
>>>>> >>> >> >> for police to detain and question 14 year olds.
>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>> >>> >> >> The teachers followed the rules, and the people who best know
>>>>> >>> >> >> this
>>>>> >>> >> >> kid
>>>>> >>> >> >> --
>>>>> >>> >> >> the teachers who work with him on a daily basis (you know...
>>>>> >>> >> >> teachers?
>>>>> >>> >> >> those
>>>>> >>> >> >> underpaid heroes we love so much? the same people some of you
>>>>> >>> >> >> are
>>>>> >>> >> >> now
>>>>> >>> >> >> willing to throw under the bus because it suits your
>>>>> >>> >> >> OMGRACISM
>>>>> >>> >> >> worldview?)
>>>>> >>> >> >> thought his behavior merited action.
>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>> >>> >> >> Before I bring you guys the most complete narrative I can put
>>>>> >>> >> >> together
>>>>> >>> >> >> of
>>>>> >>> >> >> what happened (based on mainstream news sources), HERE is a
>>>>> >>> >> >> video
>>>>> >>> >> >> showing
>>>>> >>> >> >> what it took to "invent" the clock that he "invented"
>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>> >>> >> >> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vIzQjS6tn4w
>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>> >>> >> >> On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 3:45 PM, <rbollinger at austin.rr.com>
>>>>> >>> >> >> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>> >>> >> >>> Please cite your statute governing reassembled clock
>>>>> >>> >> >>> parts...
>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>> >>> >> >>> Rob Bollinger
>>>>> >>> >> >>> Austin TX
>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>> >>> >> >>> ---- ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Was the clock a school project? In other words, did a
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > teacher, a
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > club
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > adviser, any adult in the school assign a project, and did
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > the
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > clock
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > fit
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > the assignment? Or did the young man make a clock and
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > bring it
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > to
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > school?
>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > As far as I can tell the young man did not build a clock
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > or make
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > a
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > project,
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > or in any way bring something to school that was part of
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > an
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > assignment
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > from
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > any adult in the building. It was not a project. It was
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > not show
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > tell.
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > It seems the student took apart a clock, re-fashioned it
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and put
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > in
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > in
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > a
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > box and brought it to school.
>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Why did he do this? What was his motivation?
>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Whatever his intentions, if he re-assembled clock parts in
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > a box
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > took
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > them to school, he broke the law. While 14 year old boys,
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > sometimes
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > 14
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > year old girls, are instructed that bringing a clock in a
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > box, a
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > plastic
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > gun, a plastic sword, a paper bomb or dynamite  etc...,
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > even on
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Halloween
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > is dangerous and against the law, young people do make
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > these
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > kinds
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > of
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > mistakes, from time to time. Best if they make them in
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > school as
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > school
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > is
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > the safest place in the world for students. Obviously,
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > doing so
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > in
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > the
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > street may get one killed by a police officer or even a
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > gun
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > toting
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > citizen.
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > In a school the child, age 14, will be interrogated,
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > handcuffed,
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > probably,
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and asked to write a statement explaining his or her
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > intentions
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > and
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > the
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > police will contact the guardians and book the kid. This
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > is the
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > law.
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > It
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > matters not the race or religion of the child.
>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > From time to time, a  brave administrator, more likely an
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > experienced
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > teacher will protect the child with a slap on the wrist,
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > but the
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > current
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > mood in the country and in schools is making this a rare
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > act
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > of....welll
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > not courage, but decency.
>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > On Fri, Dec 11, 2015 at 9:02 AM, The Jonathon Hunt
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > Experience <
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > newtalkingwall at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > Is there any evidence that the kid "only" took apart a
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > store
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > bought
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > clock
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > and put it back together, beyond people online pointing
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > out
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > that
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > doing so
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > is a thing that people can do? Beyond that, if the child
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > acted
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > as
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > maliciously as Richard Dawkins and others would like to
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > believe,
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > this
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > means
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > his whole plan hinged on the knowledge that his teachers
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > and
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > police
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > would
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > confuse a circuit board and some wires with something
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > that can
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > explode. If
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > our teachers and police are this stupid (which seems to
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > be the
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > case,
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > here),
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > then we are lucky in getting off with a $15 million
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > dollar
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > > fine.
>>>>> >>> >> >>> > >
>>>>> >>> >> >>>
>>>>> >>> >> >>> -
>>>>> >>> >> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>> >>> >> >>
>>>>> >>> >> >
>>>>> >>> >> -
>>>>> >>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Elisabeth Romberg
>>> eromberg at mac.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l