Re: Seymour M. Hersh · Military to Military: US intelligence sharing in the Syrian war · LRB 7 January 2016

Tue Dec 22 09:09:04 CST 2015

Seymour Hersh is interviewed on Democracy Now today.

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 8:36 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> The Int'l Spectator ‏@intlspectator  5m5 minutes ago
>
> Military spending growth, 2000-2013 US: 56% China: 362% Russia: 170%
> Saudi: 133% France: 1% UK: 17% Germany: -3%
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 7:59 AM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Heard this the other day that talks about just that
> >
> http://www.npr.org/2015/12/15/459697926/the-psychology-of-radicalization-how-terrorist-groups-attract-young-followers
> >
> > On Tuesday, December 22, 2015, Kai Frederik Lorentzen <
> lorentzen at hotmail.de>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> > How do you explain the fascination that a completely barbaric and
> savage
> >> > organization like the Islamic State holds for many young Muslim people
> >> > living in Europe?
> >>
> >> There has been a good deal of careful study of the phenomenon, by Scott
> >> Atran among others. The appeal seems to be primarily among young people
> who
> >> live under conditions of repression and humiliation, with little hope
> and
> >> little opportunity, and who seek some goal in life that offers dignity
> and
> >> self-realization; in this case, establishing a utopian Islamic state
> rising
> >> in opposition to centuries of subjugation and destruction by Western
> >> imperial power. In addition, there appears to be a good deal of peer
> >> pressure - members of the same soccer club, and so on. The sharply
> sectarian
> >> nature of the regional conflicts no doubt is also a factor - not just
> >> "defending Islam" but defending it from Shiite apostates. It's a very
> ugly
> >> and dangerous scene. <
> >>
> >>
> >> This is not wrong but incomplete. For many young Muslim people living in
> >> Europe, among them also converts, fundamentalism is a powerful pop
> culture.
> >> Jihad is the new cool! And that's a big problem.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 22.12.2015 12:23, ish mailian wrote:
> >>
> >> The Empire of Chaos: An Interview With Noam Chomsky
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/33519-the-empire-of-chaos-an-interview-with-noam-chomsky
> >>
> >> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 6:18 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Complicated that America is, so many competing interests, so many
> people
> >>> with power, with a card to play. In The Consequentialist essay we can
> see
> >>> how competing ideas clash in the white house, how differences may be
> set up
> >>> along factional lines that run deep into who and what people are,
> that, for
> >>> example, members of the decision making staff even take gendered
> political
> >>> stances that, while seemingly stereotypical, and therefore, easily
> dismissed
> >>> as such, are factional factors  that we need to understand if we are to
> >>> understand how the politics operates.
> >>>
> >>> In the Cole book, Charles Wilson, merely a congressmen, is shown to
> have
> >>> a big impact. The film has brought this to the public. But read Cole
> and you
> >>> learn of hundreds of players, minor players by most measures, but
> >>> significant policy drivers, movers and shakers. And we never hear of
> them
> >>> because they are never made the subject of a Hollywood film and
> because they
> >>> were never elected to any office.
> >>>
> >>> There are people in the US government that supported the Arab Spring.
> >>> Some are significant voices in the Obama Administrations. Some have
> left the
> >>> Administration and are still working on that project, others are still
> >>> there. Some have been working with and for several US Presidents to
> promote
> >>> democracy in the Middle East and elsewhere. Some are zealots. Some are
> >>> realists. There are others that think them fools, idiots, or bit
> players.
> >>>
> >>> This is America. It's a messy system, not so easily described by terms
> >>> like plutocracy or oligarchy or democracy or whatever.
> >>>
> >>> But Joseph has a goof point. And obvious one to anyone who has studied
> >>> America's policies abroad and at home, and the two are linked in
> significant
> >>> ways: the US is fearful of democracy, as Chomsky points out, at home
> and
> >>> abroad.
> >>>
> >>> But this is not news. Democracy is frightening to those who have an
> >>> interest in maintaining and increasing power, the multinationals, as
> Chomsky
> >>> says, for example, but far more important elements are fear democracy,
> the
> >>> establishment, the democractic party, the republicans....the list in
> long
> >>> (want a list?).
> >>>
> >>> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 4:03 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> well, the truth is ultimately credible no matter how much we
> disbelieve
> >>>> it.
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>>
> >>>> > On Dec 21, 2015, at 9:07 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> > It is not credible to me that Obama has supported the Arab spring.
> His
> >>>> > support for the military in Egypt seems to bring that into question
> along
> >>>> > with the silence about the crackdowns in Turkey, the general
> behavior of
> >>>> > Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, India etc.. Please, Ishmalian, no long
> lectures
> >>>> > about realpolitik and how naive I am to think that leaders can
> exhibit
> >>>> > humane and democratic values.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > The
> >>>> >> On Dec 21, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Obama himself seemed to place (too much) hope in the unfolding of
> the
> >>>> >> spirit of the Arab Spring in Syria....
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Peter M. Fitzpatrick
> >>>> >> <petopoet at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> >>>    Excellent, if not alarming, reporting on the quagmire. There
> are
> >>>> >>> times,
> >>>> >>> (Tito, Saddam Hussein, and yes, Assad) seem to be "acceptable"
> >>>> >>> dictators
> >>>> >>> that hold back the forces of civil war and massive bloodshed that
> >>>> >>> follows
> >>>> >>> their removal. Always a deal with the devil, I guess, just a
> >>>> >>> question of
> >>>> >>> which is worse, removal or letting them be. I think most Americans
> >>>> >>> had vague
> >>>> >>> notions of another manifestation of the "Arab Spring" taking place
> >>>> >>> in Syria
> >>>> >>> a few years ago, unaware of the Isil and other terroristic forces
> >>>> >>> waiting to
> >>>> >>> fill in the vacuum and re-instate oppression with Wahhabi and
> worse
> >>>> >>> Islamism. Everything I read here only solidifies my opposition to
> >>>> >>> what
> >>>> >>> Republican candidates are touting as the solution to Isil. We have
> >>>> >>> been
> >>>> >>> drawn into these third world conflicts before, i.e. Viet Nam, only
> >>>> >>> to pay a
> >>>> >>> high cost for little result.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> -Pete
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 8:17 PM, Mark Kohut <
> mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> >>>> >>>> wrote:
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> He's back.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>
> http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>> >>>> -
> >>>> >>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >> -
> >>>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >>>> >
> >>>> > -
> >>>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >>>> -
> >>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>

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