Re: Seymour M. Hersh · Military to Military: US intelligence sharing in the Syrian war · LRB 7 January 2016

Tue Dec 22 10:12:46 CST 2015

Are truckers ushering in a Russian spring? http://ow.ly/Wbgxm

On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 10:09 AM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:
> Seymour Hersh is interviewed on Democracy Now today.
>
> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 8:36 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> The Int'l Spectator ‏@intlspectator  5m5 minutes ago
>>
>> Military spending growth, 2000-2013 US: 56% China: 362% Russia: 170%
>> Saudi: 133% France: 1% UK: 17% Germany: -3%
>>
>> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 7:59 AM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Heard this the other day that talks about just that
>> >
>> > http://www.npr.org/2015/12/15/459697926/the-psychology-of-radicalization-how-terrorist-groups-attract-young-followers
>> >
>> > On Tuesday, December 22, 2015, Kai Frederik Lorentzen
>> > <lorentzen at hotmail.de>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > How do you explain the fascination that a completely barbaric and
>> >> > savage
>> >> > organization like the Islamic State holds for many young Muslim
>> >> > people
>> >> > living in Europe?
>> >>
>> >> There has been a good deal of careful study of the phenomenon, by Scott
>> >> Atran among others. The appeal seems to be primarily among young people
>> >> who
>> >> live under conditions of repression and humiliation, with little hope
>> >> and
>> >> little opportunity, and who seek some goal in life that offers dignity
>> >> and
>> >> self-realization; in this case, establishing a utopian Islamic state
>> >> rising
>> >> in opposition to centuries of subjugation and destruction by Western
>> >> imperial power. In addition, there appears to be a good deal of peer
>> >> pressure - members of the same soccer club, and so on. The sharply
>> >> sectarian
>> >> nature of the regional conflicts no doubt is also a factor - not just
>> >> "defending Islam" but defending it from Shiite apostates. It's a very
>> >> ugly
>> >> and dangerous scene. <
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> This is not wrong but incomplete. For many young Muslim people living
>> >> in
>> >> Europe, among them also converts, fundamentalism is a powerful pop
>> >> culture.
>> >> Jihad is the new cool! And that's a big problem.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On 22.12.2015 12:23, ish mailian wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The Empire of Chaos: An Interview With Noam Chomsky
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> http://www.truth-out.org/news/item/33519-the-empire-of-chaos-an-interview-with-noam-chomsky
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 6:18 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Complicated that America is, so many competing interests, so many
>> >>> people
>> >>> with power, with a card to play. In The Consequentialist essay we can
>> >>> see
>> >>> how competing ideas clash in the white house, how differences may be
>> >>> set up
>> >>> along factional lines that run deep into who and what people are,
>> >>> that, for
>> >>> example, members of the decision making staff even take gendered
>> >>> political
>> >>> stances that, while seemingly stereotypical, and therefore, easily
>> >>> dismissed
>> >>> as such, are factional factors  that we need to understand if we are
>> >>> to
>> >>> understand how the politics operates.
>> >>>
>> >>> In the Cole book, Charles Wilson, merely a congressmen, is shown to
>> >>> have
>> >>> a big impact. The film has brought this to the public. But read Cole
>> >>> and you
>> >>> learn of hundreds of players, minor players by most measures, but
>> >>> significant policy drivers, movers and shakers. And we never hear of
>> >>> them
>> >>> because they are never made the subject of a Hollywood film and
>> >>> because they
>> >>> were never elected to any office.
>> >>>
>> >>> There are people in the US government that supported the Arab Spring.
>> >>> Some are significant voices in the Obama Administrations. Some have
>> >>> left the
>> >>> Administration and are still working on that project, others are still
>> >>> there. Some have been working with and for several US Presidents to
>> >>> promote
>> >>> democracy in the Middle East and elsewhere. Some are zealots. Some are
>> >>> realists. There are others that think them fools, idiots, or bit
>> >>> players.
>> >>>
>> >>> This is America. It's a messy system, not so easily described by terms
>> >>> like plutocracy or oligarchy or democracy or whatever.
>> >>>
>> >>> But Joseph has a goof point. And obvious one to anyone who has studied
>> >>> America's policies abroad and at home, and the two are linked in
>> >>> significant
>> >>> ways: the US is fearful of democracy, as Chomsky points out, at home
>> >>> and
>> >>> abroad.
>> >>>
>> >>> But this is not news. Democracy is frightening to those who have an
>> >>> interest in maintaining and increasing power, the multinationals, as
>> >>> Chomsky
>> >>> says, for example, but far more important elements are fear democracy,
>> >>> the
>> >>> establishment, the democractic party, the republicans....the list in
>> >>> long
>> >>> (want a list?).
>> >>>
>> >>> On Tue, Dec 22, 2015 at 4:03 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> well, the truth is ultimately credible no matter how much we
>> >>>> disbelieve
>> >>>> it.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>
>> >>>> > On Dec 21, 2015, at 9:07 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > It is not credible to me that Obama has supported the Arab spring.
>> >>>> > His
>> >>>> > support for the military in Egypt seems to bring that into question
>> >>>> > along
>> >>>> > with the silence about the crackdowns in Turkey, the general
>> >>>> > behavior of
>> >>>> > Saudi Arabia, Indonesia, India etc.. Please, Ishmalian, no long
>> >>>> > lectures
>> >>>> > about realpolitik and how naive I am to think that leaders can
>> >>>> > exhibit
>> >>>> > humane and democratic values.
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > The
>> >>>> >> On Dec 21, 2015, at 3:57 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> >>>> >> wrote:
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> Obama himself seemed to place (too much) hope in the unfolding of
>> >>>> >> the
>> >>>> >> spirit of the Arab Spring in Syria....
>> >>>> >>
>> >>>> >> On Mon, Dec 21, 2015 at 11:49 AM, Peter M. Fitzpatrick
>> >>>> >> <petopoet at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> >>>    Excellent, if not alarming, reporting on the quagmire. There
>> >>>> >>> are
>> >>>> >>> times,
>> >>>> >>> (Tito, Saddam Hussein, and yes, Assad) seem to be "acceptable"
>> >>>> >>> dictators
>> >>>> >>> that hold back the forces of civil war and massive bloodshed that
>> >>>> >>> follows
>> >>>> >>> their removal. Always a deal with the devil, I guess, just a
>> >>>> >>> question of
>> >>>> >>> which is worse, removal or letting them be. I think most
>> >>>> >>> Americans
>> >>>> >>> had vague
>> >>>> >>> notions of another manifestation of the "Arab Spring" taking
>> >>>> >>> place
>> >>>> >>> in Syria
>> >>>> >>> a few years ago, unaware of the Isil and other terroristic forces
>> >>>> >>> waiting to
>> >>>> >>> fill in the vacuum and re-instate oppression with Wahhabi and
>> >>>> >>> worse
>> >>>> >>> Islamism. Everything I read here only solidifies my opposition to
>> >>>> >>> what
>> >>>> >>> Republican candidates are touting as the solution to Isil. We
>> >>>> >>> have
>> >>>> >>> been
>> >>>> >>> drawn into these third world conflicts before, i.e. Viet Nam,
>> >>>> >>> only
>> >>>> >>> to pay a
>> >>>> >>> high cost for little result.
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >>> -Pete
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >>>> On Sun, Dec 20, 2015 at 8:17 PM, Mark Kohut
>> >>>> >>>> <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> >>>> >>>> wrote:
>> >>>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>> He's back.
>> >>>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>> http://www.lrb.co.uk/v38/n01/seymour-m-hersh/military-to-military
>> >>>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>>
>> >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>> >>>> -
>> >>>> >>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >>>
>> >>>> >> -
>> >>>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >>>> >
>> >>>> > -
>> >>>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >>>> -
>> >>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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