Mass and Velocity of Slavery Ch 7

Sun Feb 8 19:23:26 CST 2015

Your wish for politics to become more like a Quaker meeting is what I'd
call the height of Quixotic. If wishes...

David Morris

On Sunday, February 8, 2015, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> sounds like a fairly typical new England Meeting.  Every once in a while
> something very powerful will be going on in that silence or the speaking,
> but mostly is seems like a space for processing and listening and letting
> in light.
>
> What makes the Quakers  most interesting to me is the decision making
> process which is slow deliberative, peaceable, and yet open to difference.
> If the decision making process in democracies were more like this  it would
> be slower, but IMO a vast improvement on majority rule.
>
>
> On Feb 8, 2015, at 6:14 PM, David Morris wrote:
>
> > My sister in Portsmouth NH has been attending Quaker Sunday meetings for
> a couple years. I attended once. It was mostly a group of about 100 people
> sitting in silence. I was introduced and welcomed. Near the end two or
> three people felt moved to make statements or observations, nothing
> earth-shaking.  Afterwards my sister said the meeting felt "chatty." Them
> NH Quakers are mighty silent.
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> > On Sunday, February 8, 2015, <kelber at mindspring.com <javascript:;>>
> wrote:
> > Back in the late 60s/early '70s, a number of my parents' lefty Jewish
> friends either converted or considered converting their family to
> Quakerism, so that their sons could register as Conscientious Objectors
> via-a-vis the Vietnam draft. I remember one guy laughing and saying that it
> all seemed so perfect - Quakers are anti-war, non-hierarchical, tolerant,
> into silent meditation. There's just one big drawback: they expect you to
> actually believe in God! A deal-breaker.
> >
> > Laura
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com <javascript:;>>
> >
> > >
> > >Quakers:  from wikipedia. Below
> > >
> > > A very non-stricture-ruled religion.... as I adumbrated....started by
> > >BREAKING AWAY from the Church of England
> > >almost gnostic in many ways, as you've taught us to look for,
> > >Alice...yes,not Anti-Puritan, not atheist, not agnostic so not EXACT
> > >OPPOSITE
> > > but Profane in Eliade's sense, he is, I suggest. His Quakerism
> > >manifests itself in the Life Embrace over any dogmatic beliefs of any
> > >kind...he even
> > >conforms to be willing to go to war.......he is a bad Quaker on top of
> > >whatever Quakerism he supposedly embraces..
> > >
> > >
> > >"The central unifying doctrine of these movements is the priesthood of
> > >all believers,
> > >
> > > "Unlike many other groups that emerged within Christianity, the
> > >Religious Society of Friends has actively tried to avoid creeds and
> > >hierarchical structures".
> > >
> > >"Today, slightly less than half of Friends worldwide practice
> > >programmed worship[7]--that is, worship with singing and a prepared
> > >message from the Bible,"
> > >
> > > "The movement arose from the Legatine-Arians and other dissenting
> > >Protestant groups, breaking away from the established Church of
> > >England."
> > >
> > > .."stressing the importance of a direct relationship with God, and a
> > >direct religious belief in the universal priesthood of all believers."
> > >
> > >On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 6:25 PM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >> He is not Atheist, not Agnostic. not Unitarian. He's a Quaker,
> > >> practical and mystical.
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >>> Addendum question to this nice gloss: Mason is a God-fearing Puritan;
> > >>> is Dixon a virtual godless Opposite? is his Quakerism very like the
> > >>> spiritual easiness of Unitarianism, say. (By that I mean little dogma
> > >>> and few strictures) Is his sometimes licentious, almost hedonistic
> (at
> > >>> times) embrace of life's pleasures and opportunities---the Profane?
> > >>>
> > >>>  The Sacred and the Profane in that famous two-step?
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >>>> What part is confusing? I was just trying to move on in Ch 7 with
> some things that caught my own interest.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  The first was the similarity between P's description of the
> socio-psychological effects of slavery, and the possibility that these are
> comparable to the psychological effects of recent US imperial wars or all
> wars to dominate and seize resouces. They both sound like PTSD to me. He
> metaphorically gives abuse, exploitation and violence a karmic mass and
> velocity  which is as destructive to the abuser as the abused.  Whether
> this passage is being put in the mouth of Cherrycoke or not it is very
> reminiscent of similarly omniscient sounding sentences in GR.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The second was the recurrent Pynchonian theme of escape into the
> domain of the preterite. Allow me to expand on that theme.  Dixon feels
> right at home in the wilder, non-Dutch areas of capetown and invites Mason
> to check it out. This is an interesting contrast to Mason's invite to Dixon
> to enjoy the public hangings as an intro to local Urban English culture.
> Now Mason is not a Blicero or Pointsman but he is  attracted to something
> in the culture of death  and control which bears some similarity to the
> struggle with that deterministic mindset explored in GR. He is on the other
> hand repulsed by the police state of the Voc and the practice of slavery.
> > >>>> Mason is fearful about the dangers but goes with Dixon; he likes
> the food, sociability, drink  and ambience but when it comes to sexual
> exploration is still bound by the puritanism Mark is elaborating on, or
> maybe he sees sexual union as much more intense and fraught than other
> pleasures. He seems to be looking for messages about the larger meaning of
> life and  and needs something to resolve the loss of his wife. It seems to
> me that what he needs to know was whether the love he shared in marriage
> was a taste of ultimate reality or a self delusion in a world ruled by
> physics and death.
> > >>>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 11:06 PM, David Morris wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Whaa....
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Friday, February 6, 2015, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net
> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> > >>>>> On Pg 68 P describes slavery and all its accumulated cruelties as
> having weight and velocity. He then describes what sounds like what is
> currently described as PTSD, how despair and  suicides are high among both
> slaves and slavers. P then "lightens the mood with Mason and Dixon's
> brotherly bickering. Mason is handling it by imagining he has gone to a
> strange planet inhabited by aleins where the VOC owns all. Dixon points out
> there are regions not under their control and urges him to join him in
> escaping the Vroom house and exploring those places. Thus begins a series
> of adventures in those outposts not controlled by the Voc.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -
> > >>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> > >>>>
> > >>>> -
> > >>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> > >>> -
> > >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> > >> -
> > >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> > >-
> > >Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> > -
> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
> -
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>
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