Mass and Velocity of Slavery Ch 7

[Joseph Tracy]

no not a quaker meeting, not worship,  but the process of decision making, just the idea that nobody really wants to live in a community where a slim majority can make all decisions. Not only does there have to be a better way, there is a better way that can work through very tough issues. I've seen it.
   Of course many good ideas have been put on the table and mostly go no where. But was MLK a Quixotic fool? Anyway, why give up? The fuckers running the show now are clearly insane and deserve resistance. But resistance needs alternative visions and models that have some practical success. Anyway, as Neil Young sings" I'll always be a dreamin man; that's my problem.."
On Feb 8, 2015, at 8:23 PM, David Morris wrote:

> Your wish for politics to become more like a Quaker meeting is what I'd call the height of Quixotic. If wishes...
> 
> David Morris
> 
> On Sunday, February 8, 2015, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> sounds like a fairly typical new England Meeting.  Every once in a while something very powerful will be going on in that silence or the speaking, but mostly is seems like a space for processing and listening and letting in light.
> 
> What makes the Quakers  most interesting to me is the decision making process which is slow deliberative, peaceable, and yet open to difference. If the decision making process in democracies were more like this  it would be slower, but IMO a vast improvement on majority rule.
> 
> 
> On Feb 8, 2015, at 6:14 PM, David Morris wrote:
> 
> > My sister in Portsmouth NH has been attending Quaker Sunday meetings for a couple years. I attended once. It was mostly a group of about 100 people sitting in silence. I was introduced and welcomed. Near the end two or three people felt moved to make statements or observations, nothing earth-shaking.  Afterwards my sister said the meeting felt "chatty." Them NH Quakers are mighty silent.
> >
> > David Morris
> >
> > On Sunday, February 8, 2015, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
> > Back in the late 60s/early '70s, a number of my parents' lefty Jewish friends either converted or considered converting their family to Quakerism, so that their sons could register as Conscientious Objectors via-a-vis the Vietnam draft. I remember one guy laughing and saying that it all seemed so perfect - Quakers are anti-war, non-hierarchical, tolerant, into silent meditation. There's just one big drawback: they expect you to actually believe in God! A deal-breaker.
> >
> > Laura
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > >From: Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> >
> > >
> > >Quakers:  from wikipedia. Below
> > >
> > > A very non-stricture-ruled religion.... as I adumbrated....started by
> > >BREAKING AWAY from the Church of England
> > >almost gnostic in many ways, as you've taught us to look for,
> > >Alice...yes,not Anti-Puritan, not atheist, not agnostic so not EXACT
> > >OPPOSITE
> > > but Profane in Eliade's sense, he is, I suggest. His Quakerism
> > >manifests itself in the Life Embrace over any dogmatic beliefs of any
> > >kind...he even
> > >conforms to be willing to go to war.......he is a bad Quaker on top of
> > >whatever Quakerism he supposedly embraces..
> > >
> > >
> > >"The central unifying doctrine of these movements is the priesthood of
> > >all believers,
> > >
> > > "Unlike many other groups that emerged within Christianity, the
> > >Religious Society of Friends has actively tried to avoid creeds and
> > >hierarchical structures".
> > >
> > >"Today, slightly less than half of Friends worldwide practice
> > >programmed worship[7]--that is, worship with singing and a prepared
> > >message from the Bible,"
> > >
> > > "The movement arose from the Legatine-Arians and other dissenting
> > >Protestant groups, breaking away from the established Church of
> > >England."
> > >
> > > .."stressing the importance of a direct relationship with God, and a
> > >direct religious belief in the universal priesthood of all believers."
> > >
> > >On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 6:25 PM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >> He is not Atheist, not Agnostic. not Unitarian. He's a Quaker,
> > >> practical and mystical.
> > >>
> > >> On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 5:36 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>> Addendum question to this nice gloss: Mason is a God-fearing Puritan;
> > >>> is Dixon a virtual godless Opposite? is his Quakerism very like the
> > >>> spiritual easiness of Unitarianism, say. (By that I mean little dogma
> > >>> and few strictures) Is his sometimes licentious, almost hedonistic (at
> > >>> times) embrace of life's pleasures and opportunities---the Profane?
> > >>>
> > >>>  The Sacred and the Profane in that famous two-step?
> > >>>
> > >>> On Sat, Feb 7, 2015 at 11:09 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> > >>>> What part is confusing? I was just trying to move on in Ch 7 with some things that caught my own interest.
> > >>>>
> > >>>>  The first was the similarity between P's description of the socio-psychological effects of slavery, and the possibility that these are comparable to the psychological effects of recent US imperial wars or all wars to dominate and seize resouces. They both sound like PTSD to me. He metaphorically gives abuse, exploitation and violence a karmic mass and velocity  which is as destructive to the abuser as the abused.  Whether this passage is being put in the mouth of Cherrycoke or not it is very reminiscent of similarly omniscient sounding sentences in GR.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> The second was the recurrent Pynchonian theme of escape into the domain of the preterite. Allow me to expand on that theme.  Dixon feels right at home in the wilder, non-Dutch areas of capetown and invites Mason to check it out. This is an interesting contrast to Mason's invite to Dixon to enjoy the public hangings as an intro to local Urban English culture. Now Mason is not a Blicero or Pointsman but he is  attracted to something in the culture of death  and control which bears some similarity to the struggle with that deterministic mindset explored in GR. He is on the other hand repulsed by the police state of the Voc and the practice of slavery.
> > >>>> Mason is fearful about the dangers but goes with Dixon; he likes the food, sociability, drink  and ambience but when it comes to sexual exploration is still bound by the puritanism Mark is elaborating on, or maybe he sees sexual union as much more intense and fraught than other pleasures. He seems to be looking for messages about the larger meaning of life and  and needs something to resolve the loss of his wife. It seems to me that what he needs to know was whether the love he shared in marriage was a taste of ultimate reality or a self delusion in a world ruled by physics and death.
> > >>>> On Feb 6, 2015, at 11:06 PM, David Morris wrote:
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> Whaa....
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On Friday, February 6, 2015, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> > >>>>> On Pg 68 P describes slavery and all its accumulated cruelties as having weight and velocity. He then describes what sounds like what is currently described as PTSD, how despair and  suicides are high among both slaves and slavers. P then "lightens the mood with Mason and Dixon's brotherly bickering. Mason is handling it by imagining he has gone to a strange planet inhabited by aleins where the VOC owns all. Dixon points out there are regions not under their control and urges him to join him in escaping the Vroom house and exploring those places. Thus begins a series of adventures in those outposts not controlled by the Voc.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> -
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> > >>>>
> > >>>> -
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> > >> -
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> > >-
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> 
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