M & D from Joseph's post

[Johnny Marr]

Wasnt TRP rumoured to have lived in England for a while? I appreciate he's
the subject of thousands of apocryphal stories, but he really has Dixon
down to a tee as a Geordie - not just the speaking style and idioms, but
the sense of humour and the personality correspond very closely to
archetypal Northeastern Englishmen. It seems too well drawn a character to
have been based purely on a fortnight's holiday/research of the area.

On Saturday, February 14, 2015, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> I'm going to rewrite this response to Mark's post.   I felt the same
> juxtaposing of opposites that was his response but with a twist. Sensuality
> does not automatically  imply abuse (unless you are a gnostic or NT
> literalist) , but here sensuality is given free reign in a direct relation
> to slavery. Mason imagines similar uses of slaves. Dixon who sees the
> non-whites as fellows is repulsed by the fantasy, Joanna indulges the
> fantasy and Cornelius walks away with a hard-on.  The trouble implicit in
> all this is a division of the soul  because of the desire to hang onto both
> the Bible  and the sensual power games. Both the authority of the Bible and
> slavery are necessitated by this Voc enterprise.
> > The Bible in callvinist interp gives them the status of chosen, graced,
> saved, operating under the leaders appointed by God, and the Bible
> justifies their violent and humiliating relation to those perceived as
> heathen, lost,  those who may be redeemed only in subservience to divine
> order from the fairest to the darkest.
> As a result of this division, one reality or the other will dry and
> whither. ( no one can serve 2 masters)
>
> > OK, well probably time to move on to the next chapter.
> On Feb 13, 2015, at 2:10 PM, Joseph Tracy wrote:
>
> > yes, that impossible tension. But here sensuality is connected to
> slavery, and that abuse is not implicit in the sensuality itself. Here it
> is a division in the soul because of the desire to hang onto both the Bible
> and the power/sensuality  provided by the Voc. The Bible in callvinist
> interp giving them the status of chosen, graced, saved and justifying their
> relation to those perceived as heathen, lost,  those who may be redeemed
> only in subservience to divine order from the fairest to the darkest.
> >
>
> > On Feb 13, 2015, at 6:14 AM, Mark Kohut wrote:
> >
> >> "One metaphor of this juxtaposition that I found telling was the girls
> >> oiling Joanna's skin so that it won't be as the dry pages of the
> >> Bible."
> >>
> >> I also saw this as a metaphor for the sensual, the paganish embrace of
> >> the body vs. the way the Bible has created repression from its pages.
> >> -
> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >
> > -
> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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