apropos historical

[jochen stremmel]

Read a bit further in the introduction that Becky found and stumbled over a
quote from the book (about) Mason&Dixon&Pynchon by Charles Clerc, that "for
all its playfulness, its many twists and turns, the novel [M&D] remains at
heart historical". That's good enough for me.

2015-02-19 13:02 GMT+01:00 Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>:

> Becky writes: Maybe the 20th century is moving across the 18th like
> Venus across the sun - although obviously not in a line.
>
> Yes...
>
>
>
>
> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 7:01 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> > bestest stuff going down...Becky.....parallax as an 'historical novel'
> > perspective, now THAT seems a perfect TRP way....
> >
> > I am thinking, a metahistorical novel about history i.e. without
> > jargon, non-linear but real 'patterns' and ideas embodied in
> > a near reality of events....(that are very irreal as magical realism is)
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Becky Lindroos <bekker2 at icloud.com>
> wrote:
> >> On Feb 18, 2015, at 2:27 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> then this from an historian [Jurgen Osterhammel] about his world
> >>> history book: "a certain weakness of
> >>> explanatory power may rest at the heart of the project, although in
> principle I
> >>> disagree with a postmodernist aversion to causality"
> >>>
> >>> "you're going to want cause & effect"----GR
> >>>
> >>> So, IS M & D sorta above 'explanatory power' as a world historical
> >>> novel and full
> >>> of dramatized ongoing possibilities/patterns of world history focused
> >>> through the
> >>> soon-to-be United States experiment?]
> >>
> >> Yep - you betcha - Pynchon is way beyond the "cause and effect" method
> of history - it's way too linear - the calendar is off (as we'll see
> later),  the instruments are off (in chapter 12, I think).     I think to
> TRP the idea of putting these lines (time, space, mapping, etc.)  on events
> or phenomenon is bizarre.   Besides that,  there are just too many threads
> involved to be able to track any kind of simple "cause and effect"
> relationship - can't even do that with one person, much less a whole
> history.
> >>
> >> Time in the hands of historians is just their own peculiar device to
> create linear measurement on  non-linear phenomena - like a grid on a
> globe  - at the ends,  the straight lines do not stay parallel but get
> closer - at the middle they get further.  You can't keep a grid flat on a
> globe and you can't put a 24-hour daily calendar on history.
> >>
> >> His may be an "Other Worldly" method of history - a parallax of various
> times and points of view, perhaps - past, present, future - no problem.
> Time may not be linear - (although once an egg is broken it's not going
> back together - once a bell is rung, etc.  -  still- there are arguments
> for time being curved - even a bunch of times and ways.
> >>
> >> It becomes a matter of time and the flow of history (do time and
> history have directions  - like forward? - yes of course they do in the
> world of entropy, but ... )  And whether or not something is an
> anachronism  is directly related to that.  Time is a huge theme in Mason &
> Dixon - on page 106 (Chapter 11) - in a day or two:
> >>
> >> Ethelmer says "Didn't Days take twenty-four hours to pass,  as they do
> now?"   (sounds rhetorical but ...)
> >>
> >> I think reading this closely,  we're going to have to view M&D as both
> an 18th century and as a 20th century novel - with feet in both centuries
> at the same time - overlapping - Maybe the 20th century is moving across
> the 18th like Venus across the sun - although obviously not in a line.  And
> this is going to be more and more apparent as we move along because  I've
> found all sorts of good articles about this referencing pages in the 300
> and 400 range - some in the 500 range.  We'll just recognize that element
> when we see it pop up again - and again.
> >>
> >>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=Ngv97RCuFrEC&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=%22Mason+%26+Dixon%22+anachronisms&source=bl&ots=SIyTRplVDA&sig=aNO38nBQ9wO57R8ApLmY6V1kk_o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tyTlVLXaCcS_ggTCqYP4Cw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22Mason%20%26%20Dixon%22%20anachronisms&f=false
> >>
> >> Becky
> >>
> >>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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