apropos historical

[Mark Kohut]

Ah, it is that "at heart' that so needs explication. Just like in life.

On Fri, Feb 20, 2015 at 11:29 AM, jochen stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com> wrote:
> Read a bit further in the introduction that Becky found and stumbled over a
> quote from the book (about) Mason&Dixon&Pynchon by Charles Clerc, that "for
> all its playfulness, its many twists and turns, the novel [M&D] remains at
> heart historical". That's good enough for me.
>
> 2015-02-19 13:02 GMT+01:00 Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>:
>>
>> Becky writes: Maybe the 20th century is moving across the 18th like
>> Venus across the sun - although obviously not in a line.
>>
>> Yes...
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Feb 19, 2015 at 7:01 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > bestest stuff going down...Becky.....parallax as an 'historical novel'
>> > perspective, now THAT seems a perfect TRP way....
>> >
>> > I am thinking, a metahistorical novel about history i.e. without
>> > jargon, non-linear but real 'patterns' and ideas embodied in
>> > a near reality of events....(that are very irreal as magical realism is)
>> >
>> > On Wed, Feb 18, 2015 at 8:02 PM, Becky Lindroos <bekker2 at icloud.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >> On Feb 18, 2015, at 2:27 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> then this from an historian [Jurgen Osterhammel] about his world
>> >>> history book: "a certain weakness of
>> >>> explanatory power may rest at the heart of the project, although in
>> >>> principle I
>> >>> disagree with a postmodernist aversion to causality"
>> >>>
>> >>> "you're going to want cause & effect"----GR
>> >>>
>> >>> So, IS M & D sorta above 'explanatory power' as a world historical
>> >>> novel and full
>> >>> of dramatized ongoing possibilities/patterns of world history focused
>> >>> through the
>> >>> soon-to-be United States experiment?]
>> >>
>> >> Yep - you betcha - Pynchon is way beyond the "cause and effect" method
>> >> of history - it's way too linear - the calendar is off (as we'll see later),
>> >> the instruments are off (in chapter 12, I think).     I think to TRP the
>> >> idea of putting these lines (time, space, mapping, etc.)  on events or
>> >> phenomenon is bizarre.   Besides that,  there are just too many threads
>> >> involved to be able to track any kind of simple "cause and effect"
>> >> relationship - can't even do that with one person, much less a whole
>> >> history.
>> >>
>> >> Time in the hands of historians is just their own peculiar device to
>> >> create linear measurement on  non-linear phenomena - like a grid on a globe
>> >> - at the ends,  the straight lines do not stay parallel but get closer - at
>> >> the middle they get further.  You can't keep a grid flat on a globe and you
>> >> can't put a 24-hour daily calendar on history.
>> >>
>> >> His may be an "Other Worldly" method of history - a parallax of various
>> >> times and points of view, perhaps - past, present, future - no problem.
>> >> Time may not be linear - (although once an egg is broken it's not going back
>> >> together - once a bell is rung, etc.  -  still- there are arguments for time
>> >> being curved - even a bunch of times and ways.
>> >>
>> >> It becomes a matter of time and the flow of history (do time and
>> >> history have directions  - like forward? - yes of course they do in the
>> >> world of entropy, but ... )  And whether or not something is an anachronism
>> >> is directly related to that.  Time is a huge theme in Mason & Dixon - on
>> >> page 106 (Chapter 11) - in a day or two:
>> >>
>> >> Ethelmer says "Didn't Days take twenty-four hours to pass,  as they do
>> >> now?"   (sounds rhetorical but ...)
>> >>
>> >> I think reading this closely,  we're going to have to view M&D as both
>> >> an 18th century and as a 20th century novel - with feet in both centuries at
>> >> the same time - overlapping - Maybe the 20th century is moving across the
>> >> 18th like Venus across the sun - although obviously not in a line.  And this
>> >> is going to be more and more apparent as we move along because  I've found
>> >> all sorts of good articles about this referencing pages in the 300 and 400
>> >> range - some in the 500 range.  We'll just recognize that element when we
>> >> see it pop up again - and again.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> https://books.google.com/books?id=Ngv97RCuFrEC&pg=PA9&lpg=PA9&dq=%22Mason+%26+Dixon%22+anachronisms&source=bl&ots=SIyTRplVDA&sig=aNO38nBQ9wO57R8ApLmY6V1kk_o&hl=en&sa=X&ei=tyTlVLXaCcS_ggTCqYP4Cw&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=%22Mason%20%26%20Dixon%22%20anachronisms&f=false
>> >>
>> >> Becky
>> >>
>> >>
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
>
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Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l