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Thu Jan 8 12:49:49 CST 2015

Well, yes it was a history but I thought it easily had enough
philosophy to qualify.

There are TONS of pure philosophy texts if that is what was/is wanted.
Even popular books, paperbacks from the past even, that have 'the ideas".

Pierce revolutionized Logic, yes on Semiotics before Saussere and Eco
and others.
Pierce STARTED, virtually created Pragmatism, which he called
Pragmaticism. he did not like the word Pragmatism. James
credited him with starting it.
The word 'success' is the misleading word, imho. Our use creates THE
MEANING ITSELF. It purposely refuted all Philosophy-only-in-the-head
thinking....Platonic, Scholastic, almost anything starting with a
'ideal' abstract definition.

I would argue the American strain of "philosophy" has little truck
with pure 'logical analysis", yet it is still Philosophy.
And, as you say, Very American.

On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 1:05 PM, Becky Lindroos <bekker2 at icloud.com> wrote:
> Yup -  I did read the Menand book  - great book!  But it's not a philosophy book - it's a history book which tries to explain some outline Pragmatism and the men who developed that kind of thinking.  A friend of mine who has studied  philosophy all his life was very upset that the book spent more time on the development of the ideas than on the actual ideas themselves.  He  said it was a piss-poor philosophy book.  I told him it was not meant to be a philosophy book - it is a history book and it won the Pulitzer in History in 2002.  (Had to look that one up!)
>
> Yes,  Peirce,  James, Dewey and probably Oliver Wendall Holmes all used Pragmatism to develop their own thinking.   James was pretty good in his psychology text as well as in "Varieties of Religious Experience"  (yes,  I read that but so long, long ago.) Pierce used Pragmatism in logic and semiotics.  Dewey's fields were Education and social reform.  Holmes used them in making his decisions from the Supreme Court (and in his writings about that).
>
> I suppose much of this depends on a definition of  "philosophy."  These guys were like actual practitioners (not theoreticians) of philosophy. Philosphers generally use logic alone - these guys used practical results in the real world as well.
> "Pragmatists contend that most philosophical topics--such as the nature of knowledge, language, concepts, meaning, belief, and science--are all best viewed in terms of their practical uses and successes."
>
> Pragmatism in (second down):
>         * PHILOSOPHY
> an approach that assesses the truth of meaning of theories or beliefs in terms of the success of their practical application.
> (top of the Google search)
>
> Old joke:
> American thinking - Yes, that looks good in theory,  but does it work on practice?
> French thinking - Yes,  that all fine and well in practice, but does it fit with theory?
>
> Bek
> with no conclusions - Americans are NOT terribly philosophically minded - interested in reading that Cornel West book - The Evasion of Philosophy  - it's here and on my wish list but I have too many books to read now!   (Aaaaaaarrrrrggggg!!!!)
> https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=EDkdjUUVLCIC&utm_source=na_Med&utm_medium=hasem&utm_content=100914&utm_campaign=BooksActAd&pcampaignid=MKT-EG-na-us-all-Med-hasem-bk-BooksActAd-100914-1&gclid=CMCCg9L9hMMCFSmx7Aod4RUAdg&gclsrc=ds
>
> Bekah
>
>> On Jan 8, 2015, at 9:25 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Ah, up my alley this time (as he rounds the corner off Main street and
>> 2nd Ave), Becky....Louis Menand, pretty terrif New Yorker guy and
>> ex-scholar and still writer of books, who tried real hard to fully
>> like Against the Day, wrote the book you want. THE METAPHYSICAL CLUB.
>> (He has also put together Pragmatism readers and other book
>> extensions).
>>
>> And I have read that book. A--And I know some patchwork philosophy.
>> And REAL philosophy was done. C.S. Pierce, who has gone around the
>> Plist a few times, is a still neglected Genius and Fountainhead.
>> James, who got more popular---the sad story of Pierce being shut out
>> of academic positions, so that he could not make a living, is very
>> sad. That Head of Harvard to whom Henry Adams sent--or maybe even
>> dedicated his Education, would, when called badmouth him...so, he
>> wouldn't get hired...James, a nice and good guy too, DID finally get
>> Pierce work at Johns Hopkins for awhile...and James and Dewey did do
>> good work...and, needless to say, pragmatism is a LOT MORE/OTHER THAN
>> WHAT WORKS...as the US has narrowed it to....
>>
>> See Pierce on Chance and wonder if TRP had it in mind for them Chums.
>>
>> I'll risk narrowing but Pierce and Others could be said to have
>> created the anti-Platonic, anti-Scholastic active methodology that it
>> is our use---of language and so much more---that determines its/our
>> meanings...
>>
>> There is a direct connection from another youthful
>> mathematician/philosopher who died way young, Paul Ramsey, to
>> Wittgenstein leading him to become, in his second book, the later
>> Wittgenstein (in his ideas), a pragmatist plus plus maybe.
>>
>> Anyway
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 11:30 AM, Becky Lindroos <bekker2 at icloud.com> wrote:
>>> Yep - that's why I typed it thusly - "(the method-"philosophy")" .  The real "Pragmatist" thinkers were more like practitioners of philosophy than actual philosophers - for the most part they established methods but not results although I'd submit that their eventual individual goals included results.  The whole movement was a side-result of the Civil War.   It might be interesting to look into the origins of Pragmatist thinking *other than* the Civil War  - not necessarily written works,  but evidence derived from the "American" experience including frontier life, the Revolutionary War, development of the Constitution and other documents, etc.  It came from somewhere - and it is SO American.
>>>
>>> Bek
>>>
>>>
>>>> On Jan 8, 2015, at 8:13 AM, Dave Monroe <against.the.dave at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> http://uwpress.wisc.edu/books/0541.htm
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 10:00 AM, Becky Lindroos <bekker2 at icloud.com> wrote:
>>>>> I think "Pragmatism" (the method- "philosophy") likely bears on almost any (not all)  reading of Americana.
>>>>>
>>>>> Bekah
>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2015, at 7:05 AM, Ian Livingston <igrlivingston at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Just reading about Wm James last evening. It turns out "inner life" is a term he used meaningfully. The olde American functionalist / pragmatist approach certainly bears on any reading of Pynchon, whether as source or butt of the satire.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 6:22 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
>>>>>> From: MarkKohut (via Twitter) <notify at twitter.com>
>>>>>> Date: Thu, Jan 8, 2015 at 9:21 AM
>>>>>> Subject: MarkKohut (@MarkKohut) shared a conversation with you!
>>>>>> To: MarkKohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> -
>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>>
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>
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