M&D Deep Duck Ch. 3: Innocent merriment

[Monte Davis]

Twilight of Empire in 1760 -- just because WE were about to leave? There
was still ~150 years of growth to come in Asia and Africa...

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 5:04 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> I will bow to that, happily yet, cosmic is often Pynchon so I'll
> circle on back and I have refined my reach a bit after posting. Mason
> is, here, the West an Anglican Englishman at the twilight of its
> Empire. Not the new world to come.
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Too cosmic for now -- I'm just trying to understand Anglican Englishman
> > Mason and death, and the timing of the angles from which we're shown
> that.
> > Let's tackle Puritans, Americans, Western Civilization and death later.
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>  If, as Rich pointed out, Mason & Dixon are--and I think he asked if
> >> it was (too) obviously opposing strains in the Americas that are
> >> becoming the United States, let me throw this around the
> >> scholarly-inclined.
> >> We know that Brown's LIFE AGAINST DEATH shaped a lot of the deep
> >> vision of Gravity's Rainbow...you can look it up..
> >>
> >> So, I ask, is Pynchon's very full accenting of Mason's proclivity to
> >> deathless therefore death-obsessed thoughts a focussing
> >> on the death wish in Western, soon the real America, society? That
> >> deep foundational Puritan strain excoriated  from Melville, Hawthorne
> >> thru Pynchon and Roth (and all the earlier and later writers I missed)
> >> with TRP carrying it to Freud's death wish thru
> >> Brown? The Discontents with Civilization.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 11:19 AM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Well... death and mourning and suicidal thoughts and metempsychosis
> >> > having
> >> > had their say, let's add what we'll learn on pp. 109-110, when a
> >> > brightly
> >> > outfitted Florinda arrives at St. Helena and greets Mason as "Tyburn
> >> > Charlie":
> >> > "The year after Rebekah's death was treacherous ground for Mason, who
> >> > was as
> >> > apt to cross impulsively by Ferry into the Bosom of Wapping, and
> another
> >> > night of joyless low debauchery, as to attend Routs in Chelsea, where
> >> > nothing was available betwixt Eye-Flirtation, and the Pox. In
> >> > lower-situated
> >> > imitations of the Hellfire Club, he hurtl'd
> >> > carelessly along some of Lust's less-frequented footpaths... 'Twas
> then
> >> > that
> >> > Mason began his Practice, each Friday, of going out to the hangings at
> >> > Tyburn, expressly to chat up women, upon a number of assumptions, many
> >> > of
> >> > which would not widely be regarded as sane."
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 6:09 PM, <msacha1121 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> So many suggestions of death in this section, popping up amidst
> >> >> otherwise
> >> >> lighthearted scenes of pre-departure. Tyburn can probably be
> attributed
> >> >> to
> >> >> mood, but there's a lot to do with the sense of passage and the
> >> >> significance
> >> >> of getting back from the traverse - Mason, in the company of Hepsie,
> is
> >> >> eager to reach his late wife but not to stay there. Pirate ships are
> >> >> "Bullies (that) shift about in the dark", but it isn't the French at
> >> >> the
> >> >> helm of boats that "wait with muffl'd Oars to ferry them against
> their
> >> >> will
> >> >> over to a Life they may not return from." The principle word here, I
> >> >> think,
> >> >> being "may".
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> > On Jan 12, 2015, at 3:14 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Life Against Death....and Dixon fearing he is unfit for being with
> >> >> > others in public.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > Then, related, Mason's Puritanism sees joke-telling Dixon as
> perhaps
> >> >> > dicey to be in public with.
> >> >> >
> >> >> > a lot in its way....major contrasting temperaments and each seeing
> a
> >> >> > different public self.
> >> >> > has to lead someplace in the book.........
> >> >> >
> >> >> >> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 3:05 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
> >
> >> >> >> wrote:
> >> >> >> I think the implication is that Mason's grieving has brought on a
> >> >> >> depression, generating a morbid fascination with death. I don't
> know
> >> >> >> how
> >> >> >> much deeper one could examine this.
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >> David Morris
> >> >> >>
> >> >> >>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Monte Davis
> >> >> >>> <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
> >> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> 15.10: "Mason explains, though without his precise reason for it,
> >> >> >>> that,
> >> >> >>> for the past Year or more, it has been his practice to attend the
> >> >> >>> Friday
> >> >> >>> Hangings at that melancholy place ..." (Tyburn)
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Anybody care to venture a "precise reason"? This first meeting is
> >> >> >>> in
> >> >> >>> 1760
> >> >> >>> or 1761, so his habit might date to his wife Rebekah's death in
> >> >> >>> 1759
> >> >> >>> (although later we'll get reasons to think he had tended to the
> >> >> >>> Melancholick well before that). And yes, the Tyburn hangings were
> >> >> >>> an
> >> >> >>> acknowledged Sight of London.
> >> >> >>>
> >> >> >>> Is that enough to explain it? Mason is rather gentle, neither
> >> >> >>> sadistic
> >> >> >>> nor
> >> >> >>> vindictive; I for one don't see an obvious or direct connection
> >> >> >>> between
> >> >> >>> mouning and a desire to watch excutions.
> >> >> > -
> >> >> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >> >
> >> >
> >
> >
>
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