M&D Deep Duck Ch. 3: Innocent merriment

[Mark Kohut]

Yes and particularly as emphasized by TRP very early
the reality of death.

On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 7:23 PM, alice malice <alicewmalice at gmail.com> wrote:
> The characterization of Mason as English, as Anglican, as Scientific
> and so on, all stuff we can read, as Pynchon did, in the history and
> biography, the letters and so on, need not be reconciled with the
> Mason we meet in M&D. In fact, this seems the point. Pynchon's Mason
> is a melancholic soul, troubled by wind and what is blowing in it,
> much of it what his training, his knowledge of history, what he was
> told and taught, what he came to expect prepared never to encounter.
>
> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Too cosmic for now -- I'm just trying to understand Anglican Englishman
>> Mason and death, and the timing of the angles from which we're shown that.
>> Let's tackle Puritans, Americans, Western Civilization and death later.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 2:21 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>  If, as Rich pointed out, Mason & Dixon are--and I think he asked if
>>> it was (too) obviously opposing strains in the Americas that are
>>> becoming the United States, let me throw this around the
>>> scholarly-inclined.
>>> We know that Brown's LIFE AGAINST DEATH shaped a lot of the deep
>>> vision of Gravity's Rainbow...you can look it up..
>>>
>>> So, I ask, is Pynchon's very full accenting of Mason's proclivity to
>>> deathless therefore death-obsessed thoughts a focussing
>>> on the death wish in Western, soon the real America, society? That
>>> deep foundational Puritan strain excoriated  from Melville, Hawthorne
>>> thru Pynchon and Roth (and all the earlier and later writers I missed)
>>> with TRP carrying it to Freud's death wish thru
>>> Brown? The Discontents with Civilization.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 11:19 AM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> > Well... death and mourning and suicidal thoughts and metempsychosis
>>> > having
>>> > had their say, let's add what we'll learn on pp. 109-110, when a
>>> > brightly
>>> > outfitted Florinda arrives at St. Helena and greets Mason as "Tyburn
>>> > Charlie":
>>> > "The year after Rebekah's death was treacherous ground for Mason, who
>>> > was as
>>> > apt to cross impulsively by Ferry into the Bosom of Wapping, and another
>>> > night of joyless low debauchery, as to attend Routs in Chelsea, where
>>> > nothing was available betwixt Eye-Flirtation, and the Pox. In
>>> > lower-situated
>>> > imitations of the Hellfire Club, he hurtl'd
>>> > carelessly along some of Lust's less-frequented footpaths... 'Twas then
>>> > that
>>> > Mason began his Practice, each Friday, of going out to the hangings at
>>> > Tyburn, expressly to chat up women, upon a number of assumptions, many
>>> > of
>>> > which would not widely be regarded as sane."
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 6:09 PM, <msacha1121 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> So many suggestions of death in this section, popping up amidst
>>> >> otherwise
>>> >> lighthearted scenes of pre-departure. Tyburn can probably be attributed
>>> >> to
>>> >> mood, but there's a lot to do with the sense of passage and the
>>> >> significance
>>> >> of getting back from the traverse - Mason, in the company of Hepsie, is
>>> >> eager to reach his late wife but not to stay there. Pirate ships are
>>> >> "Bullies (that) shift about in the dark", but it isn't the French at
>>> >> the
>>> >> helm of boats that "wait with muffl'd Oars to ferry them against their
>>> >> will
>>> >> over to a Life they may not return from." The principle word here, I
>>> >> think,
>>> >> being "may".
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >> > On Jan 12, 2015, at 3:14 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Life Against Death....and Dixon fearing he is unfit for being with
>>> >> > others in public.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Then, related, Mason's Puritanism sees joke-telling Dixon as perhaps
>>> >> > dicey to be in public with.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > a lot in its way....major contrasting temperaments and each seeing a
>>> >> > different public self.
>>> >> > has to lead someplace in the book.........
>>> >> >
>>> >> >> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 3:05 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>> >> >> wrote:
>>> >> >> I think the implication is that Mason's grieving has brought on a
>>> >> >> depression, generating a morbid fascination with death. I don't know
>>> >> >> how
>>> >> >> much deeper one could examine this.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> David Morris
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>> On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 1:39 PM, Monte Davis
>>> >> >>> <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
>>> >> >>> wrote:
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> 15.10: "Mason explains, though without his precise reason for it,
>>> >> >>> that,
>>> >> >>> for the past Year or more, it has been his practice to attend the
>>> >> >>> Friday
>>> >> >>> Hangings at that melancholy place ..." (Tyburn)
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Anybody care to venture a "precise reason"? This first meeting is
>>> >> >>> in
>>> >> >>> 1760
>>> >> >>> or 1761, so his habit might date to his wife Rebekah's death in
>>> >> >>> 1759
>>> >> >>> (although later we'll get reasons to think he had tended to the
>>> >> >>> Melancholick well before that). And yes, the Tyburn hangings were
>>> >> >>> an
>>> >> >>> acknowledged Sight of London.
>>> >> >>>
>>> >> >>> Is that enough to explain it? Mason is rather gentle, neither
>>> >> >>> sadistic
>>> >> >>> nor
>>> >> >>> vindictive; I for one don't see an obvious or direct connection
>>> >> >>> between
>>> >> >>> mouning and a desire to watch excutions.
>>> >> > -
>>> >> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>> >
>>> >
>>
>>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l