A Spectre is haunting comedy...

[Joe Allonby]

Political correctness was invented by right wing satirist P.J. O'Rourke as
a joke when he was editor of The American Spectator. It was a joke. It was
never intended to be taken seriously. Apparently, a lot of people didn't
get the joke. Now we have the War on Christmas and the Persecution of the
Dukes of Hazzard as a result.

The paranoid school of politics has enough bullshit ammunition, Don't give
them more. And for chrissake, why would anyone who has spent anytime on a
university campus take seriously the self-righteous rantings of a college
student who has never had a job or paid a bill? Saying stupid things
vehemently is part of the college experience. Laugh and move on.




On Tue, Jul 7, 2015 at 8:22 PM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:

> This is a really interesting debate, or at least interesting to me
> since I'm a big fan of the art of stand-up (and it is an art... some
> of the most profound stuff I've seen this year has been stand-up).
> It's probably also a debate that's been around since at least the old
> and new comedy of the Greeks. I don't think comedy is on its deathbed.
> Seinfeld might not feel comfortable playing college campuses but I
> have a feeling he's gonna be oooookaaaay.
>
> I think it's worth playing devil's avocado and considering how comedy
> is often deeply conservative and reactionary. This isn't an argument
> for censoring that heavy strain of humour, which is absolutely central
> and mainstream. But as often happens when someone writes a screed
> lamenting apparent racism or misogyny or homophobia or whatever, the
> calls of 'but free speeeeech!' don't address the charges but sidestep
> them. If it's a comic's right to explore any territory, however taboo,
> then it's also a punter's right to object to it. It's not the comic's
> responsibility to rebutt the complaint, or anyone's responsibility,
> really.
>
> The right to be offended is rarely defended today, it seems to me. But
> isn't there great power in getting angry, arguing for change, letting
> feelings override reason? Isn't the alternative - that we stifle our
> discomfort, accept what we're shovelled even when it rankles - the
> most conservative attitude of all?
>
> Not that there's anything wrong with that.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 12:43 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Hey, just to wrench (sic) it up....any jokes offend anyone?
> > How about that notion going around...."no rape jokes are--can be--funny"
> ?
> >
> > I have had Rightward friends send me Obama, Hillary jokes......which I
> would
> > never want censored BUT.................
> >
> > Some make me cringe. Almost all I cannot find even remotely funny
> > .....(and it is because I see a different set of facts than they do,
> > among other reasons. )
> >
> > One thing that interests me is when and why certain joke themes catch
> > on in a society.
> > Why, for example, did that comedian who broke the comedian club rule
> > and joked about
> > Cosby's actions---widely believed and even brought out over some media
> > years ago--
> > finally hit a nerve, go viral and...voila.
> >
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 11:27 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> Comedy is Irrevrance.  It is designed to offend, startle, tickle,
> provoke.
> >> It should never be predictable. It is sometimes also very wise...
> >>
> >> The "Other" in comedy is often ourselves, fat & stupid like Homer
> Simpson.
> >> That Identity factor of Comedy is a deeper relevance in us than an
> offense
> >> against this "Other" character. Our own experience, identified feeling,
> is
> >> why we laugh. Comedy is an offense against ones's own self, ones's
> Shadow.
> >>
> >> David
> >> I think the difference between the US and the Euro is obvious:  one is a
> >> country, the other is a currency.  Currency, like Corporations, aren't
> >> people. A Country is made of people.
> >>
> >> The EU was never a sincere Union.  It was a bankers deal, pure and
> simple.
> >>
> >> On Monday, July 6, 2015, Dave Monroe <against.the.dave at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I have what I think is a basically ACLU attitude towards free speech,
> >>> you can't be selective, you gotta protect all of it if you want to
> >>> maintain it.  I wouldn't sign on, most recently, a "fire Donald Trump"
> >>> (who by all rights should have "fired" himself the moment he declared
> >>> his candidacy, who under the Fairness Doctrine [1949 - 2011,
> >>> requiescat in pace] would have basically required NBC to give ALL the
> >>> candidates their own "reality" [sic] shows [or so it goes in some
> >>> parallel universe]) petition 'cos I'd just as soon have idiots
> >>> identify themselves clearly (and, in this case, @ least, repeatedly,
> >>> not to mention loudly) as such.  And, lo and behold, a couple/three
> >>> days later, either out of some sort of corporate conscience, or (more
> >>> likely) threats (explicit, implied and/or anticipated) of pulled
> >>> sponsorships, did ihe deed "itself" (sic)..
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 12:14 PM,  <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>> > I agree with you, Mark. My real issue with most comedy out there is
> that
> >>> > it's just not very funny, precisely because there are few, if any,
> >>> > boundaries left. Maybe, in an oddball way, the finger-pointers are
> serving
> >>> > the long-term cause of comedy by putting the boundaries back. As
> Michael
> >>> > Flanders, of the old comic singing duo, Flanders and Swann, once
> quipped:
> >>> > "The purpose of satire is to strip off the veneer of comforting
> illusions,
> >>> > and cosy half-truths. And our job, as I see it, is to put it back
> again."
> >>> >
> >>> > I think odious PC tongue-clucking, in general, is related to the
> broader
> >>> > phenomenon of crowd-shaming:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/15/magazine/how-one-stupid-tweet-ruined-justine-saccos-life.html?_r=0
> >>> >
> >>> > Personally, I refuse any calls to pile on to any online shaming
> >>> > campaigns of public figures, in their various guises: "You won't
> believe
> >>> > what [blank] said." or "Demand that [blank] be fired for his [blank]
> >>> > statement," etc. I decry laws and policies, never people. If a
> public figure
> >>> > brags about how great the KKK is, it's my right to feel revulsion.
> But I
> >>> > support free speech, even if it's Limbaugh or O'Reilly or Palin or
> McCain or
> >>> > any of the Bushes doing the speaking.  Maybe it's because in the 18
> years I
> >>> > worked in the construction industry, during which I was called
> honey, baby,
> >>> > bitch, cunt, dyke, Jewess, Jewish cunt, etc., I learned to either
> ignore the
> >>> > slurs or respond with dignity. When I was sexually harassed or
> threatened
> >>> > with rape or even murder, the system was so out of whack that the
> focus was
> >>> > on saving MY job, not getting the other person fired. And, you know
> what? I
> >>> > was still able to discern that there was a broad range of intent and
> >>> > intelligence, even among the slur
> >>> >  -makers.
> >>> >
> >>> > Are there exceptions to what I'm saying? Of course there are. That's
> the
> >>> > cool thing about humans - we're nuanced, self-contradictory, and
> constantly
> >>> > evolving. No point in defining any of us by a few random statements.
> >>> >
> >>> > Laura
> >>> >
> >>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>> >
> >>> > From: Monte Davis
> >>> >
> >>> > Sent: Jul 6, 2015 10:12 AM
> >>> >
> >>> > To: Mark Thibodeau
> >>> >
> >>> > Cc: pynchon -l
> >>> >
> >>> > Subject: Re: A Spectre is haunting comedy...
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> >
> >>> > I have some broader and more ambivalent misgivings about how the
> >>> > progressive version of "more outraged than thou" has accelerated
> with social
> >>> > media... but very little ambivalence when it comes to comedy, which
> has been
> >>> > a "firewalled" space to say *anything* in a lot of cultures for a
> long, long
> >>> > time before the First Amendment. See court jesters, satyr plays,
> carnivals &
> >>> > Lords of Misrule, giggly scandalous children's rhymes, etc etc. IMHO
> that
> >>> > has been and remains a good thing: if there's anywhere the Voltairean
> >>> > "...but I will defend to the death your right to say it" should be
> absolute,
> >>> > it's comedy.
> >>> > To put it another way: my own preference when I vehemently object to
> >>> > expressions of racism, sexism, etc. is to prioritize targets with
> actual
> >>> > legal/political power...
> >>> > Followed at quite a distance by random celebrities NOT in the sphere
> of
> >>> > comedy/ satire...
> >>> > Followed by the random racist/sexist/etc bozos in my face who
> attempts
> >>> > to sweeten his venom ingenuously with "Hey, just kidding! You
> [bien-pensant
> >>> > advocacy label here] are so humorless!"
> >>> > Followed, at the very very bottom of the priority list, by those who
> >>> > explicitly fly the cultural flags/tags of comic/satiric performance.
> Too
> >>> > many of my own cherished progressive tenets started out and/or gained
> >>> > momentum there.
> >>> > On Mon, Jul 6, 2015 at 2:46 AM, Mark Thibodeau <
> jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> >>> > wrote:
> >>> > I wrote this for my blog a couple days ago.
> >>> > I realize it may rankle some here in terms of its implications, but I
> >>> > would really appreciate feedback from a group of people whom I am
> pretty
> >>> > much certain are, for the most part, a lot smarter than I am.
> >>> > So, by all means... critique away!
> >>> >
> >>> > Here's the link:
> >>> >
> >>> >
> http://dailydirtdiaspora.blogspot.ca/2015/07/thats-not-funny-manufactured-crisis-of.html
> >>> >
> >>> > Thanks in advance for your help!
> >>> > Mark T. aka Jerky LeBoeuf
> >>> > -
> >>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >>> -
> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> > -
> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>
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