A Ranking of Pynchon's Novels

[David Morris]

I ranked m&D third, (I love V for the same reasons I love GR) so we're not
too far apart.  I prefer GRs urgency, and it's poetry.  It is more an
analysis that a regret.  It dives deep into the question of  "What is?"
It's paranoia is sincere. That paranoia is like a religious quest.

I liked M&D very much also. I confess I've only read it once. Four times GR.

David Morris

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com> wrote:

> David said, "the fact that not everyone agrees that GR is Pynchon's
> masterpiece make some of wonder what's wrong with those that don't. We
> could start flame wars about these differences. That might be illuminating,
> and fun..."
>
> Since I was one of the (few) people who didn't rank GR first, let me try
> to shed some light, but not heat.  The most recent time I re-read GR, I was
> as impressed as ever with it intellectually, but it didn't seem as human as
> M&D.  Maybe a central question of M&D is, Why did we end up with this
> country instead of another?  That's question in many of Pynchon's novels
> (AtD (this world instead of another) and both Inherent Vice and Vineland
> (this California instead of another). That sense of contingency, that sense
> that things could have been different, speaks to me, and I find it missing
> in GR (and V and TCoL49 before it), where there is such a strong sense of
> predetermination, of the discovery of a hidden order and conspiracy,
> whether in the pattern of the V-2s falling on London or the
> printed-circuit-like layout of San Narciso. I'm presenting this as a
> dichotomy, but of course something of that sense of another country is in
> the earlier books, for example in a great passage just before the end of
> TCoL49 which I can't find online just now.  Still, from this perspective
> you can be impressed by the intellectual pyrotechnics of GR (it is second
> on my list, after all), and yet still think of it as a not-yet-matured work
> relative to M&D.  If Pynchon had written M&D in the 70s and GR two decades
> later, might their relative statures in everyone's eyes be the reverse?
>
> Those are just a few thoughts tonight. I reserve the right to change my
> mind completely tomorrow.
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:58 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','fqmorris at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> Those that have read all of Pynchon's novels are familiar with each ones
>> qualities and differences. Thus there is a common unspoken understanding of
>> the overall picture. But the fact that not everyone agrees that GR is
>> Pynchon's masterpiece make some of wonder what's wrong with those that
>> don't. We could start flame wars about these differences. That might be
>> illuminating, and fun...
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, Conor McDade <fpsconor at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','fpsconor at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>>
>>> I am only a youth, so I apologize for my naivete, but what is the point
>>> of these lists without providing any insight as to why you listed them in
>>> such order? Is it simply to see how people's tastes vary?
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Chris v <traditionalgb at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> 1. AtD
>>>> 2. M&D
>>>> 3. GR
>>>> 4. VL
>>>> 5. IV
>>>> 6. CoL49
>>>> 7. V.
>>>> 8. SL
>>>> 9. BE (haven't read yet)
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Why doesn't Ms. Jackson (and Thomas) make that happen, you think? Why
>>>>> wasn't there a 50th Anniversary edition Of V? seems about every modern "
>>>>> classic" was so " honored" Think Pynchon does not believe in such
>>>>> anniversary editions?
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>> On Jul 22, 2015, at 3:51 AM, James Robertson <
>>>>> james at themutedposthorn.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> I sure wish someone would record an audiobook of V, and Vineland. That
>>>>> new George Guidall version of GR is marvellous.
>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 at 8:48 pm jochen stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> 2nd that!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2015-07-22 9:55 GMT+02:00 Heikki R <
>>>>>> situations.journeys.comedy at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. Gravity's Rainbow
>>>>>>> 2. V.
>>>>>>> 3. Mason & Dixon
>>>>>>> 4. The Crying of Lot 49
>>>>>>> 5. Vineland
>>>>>>> 6. Against the Day
>>>>>>> 7. Inherent Vice
>>>>>>> 8. Bleeding Edge
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In fact, on a couple of occasions, the contestants were
>>>>>>> shoulder-to-shoulder. But I decided to avoid ties (perhaps for tactical
>>>>>>> reasons).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Heikki
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 7:02 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Eaux Contraire!
>>>>>>>> Inclusion is de facto non-flame. Love is the answer.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> David Morris
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Dave Monroe <against.the.dave at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> ...  speaking of flame wars ...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:04 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> > Elected Officials are all we got in this semi-democracy. Love it
>>>>>>>>> or Leave
>>>>>>>>> > it.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > We need to embrace democracy, with all its warts. We are
>>>>>>>>> extremely lucky to
>>>>>>>>> > be living in a place where we would want to discuss this
>>>>>>>>> abstraction.
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > David Morris
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>> > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Dave Monroe <
>>>>>>>>> against.the.dave at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> Americans will vote for almost anything except elected
>>>>>>>>> officials.
>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:33 PM, David Morris <
>>>>>>>>> fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> > Voting is so American Idol!  I want my choice to win!
>>>>>>>>> >> > Face facts: Votes aren't gunna be backed up by essays.
>>>>>>>>> >> > David Morris
>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>> >> > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> No, it just means that mathematical averages cannot capture
>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>> >> >> delightful diversity of our responses! Collating the
>>>>>>>>> different lists
>>>>>>>>> >> >> into one loses something the way that a plot summary of a P
>>>>>>>>> novel will
>>>>>>>>> >> >> never suffice.
>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:10 PM, David Ewers <
>>>>>>>>> dsewers at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> >> > I feel so redundant!
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>> >> >> > On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:53 PM Jolly good day we are having,
>>>>>>>>> John Bailey
>>>>>>>>> >> >> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> The order seems to remain the same.
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:55 AM, David Ewers <
>>>>>>>>> dsewers at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Me too!
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 1. V.
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 2. Gravity's Rainbow
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 3. Mason & Dixon
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 4/5. Against the Day
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 4/5. Crying of Lot 49
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 6. Vineland
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 7. Inherent Vice
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 8. Bleeding Edge
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:22 PM Jolly good day we are
>>>>>>>>> having, Mark
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Thibodeau
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> I love the diversity of opinions, too, but I'm kind of
>>>>>>>>> surprised at
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> how bad
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> V. is faring!
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> MT/J
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Ian Livingston
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> Love the diversity of rankings in rating one great
>>>>>>>>> author. Rather
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> like six
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> blind men describing an elephant. We each have our
>>>>>>>>> opinions and
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> our
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> reasons
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> for them. I love GR, I truly do, and it may be the
>>>>>>>>> greater work
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> for
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> all it
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> did to shape postmodernism, but:
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 1. M&D
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 2. GR
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 3. AtD
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 4. V. / COL 49  (tie)
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 5. Vineland
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 6. BE
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 7. IV
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 8. Slow Learner
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:48 PM, glenn fuller
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> <glennfuller at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> G.R.
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> A.t.D.
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> T.C.O.L.49
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> Vineland
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> M&D
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> I.V.
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> B.E.
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> V
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>> >> >> -
>>>>>>>>> >> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
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