A Ranking of Pynchon's Novels

[rich]

I wrote a poem about M&D about Rebekah mason. Could never write one about
GR--why write a poem about a poem? The only novel I think that can compare
to GR in terms of sheer poetic brilliance is Absalom Absalom. Faulkner I
will read into my senile years if I'm lucky

rich

On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:

> I ranked m&D third, (I love V for the same reasons I love GR) so we're not
> too far apart.  I prefer GRs urgency, and it's poetry.  It is more an
> analysis that a regret.  It dives deep into the question of  "What is?"
> It's paranoia is sincere. That paranoia is like a religious quest.
>
> I liked M&D very much also. I confess I've only read it once. Four times
> GR.
>
> David Morris
>
> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','rpmahnke at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>
>> David said, "the fact that not everyone agrees that GR is Pynchon's
>> masterpiece make some of wonder what's wrong with those that don't. We
>> could start flame wars about these differences. That might be illuminating,
>> and fun..."
>>
>> Since I was one of the (few) people who didn't rank GR first, let me try
>> to shed some light, but not heat.  The most recent time I re-read GR, I was
>> as impressed as ever with it intellectually, but it didn't seem as human as
>> M&D.  Maybe a central question of M&D is, Why did we end up with this
>> country instead of another?  That's question in many of Pynchon's novels
>> (AtD (this world instead of another) and both Inherent Vice and Vineland
>> (this California instead of another). That sense of contingency, that sense
>> that things could have been different, speaks to me, and I find it missing
>> in GR (and V and TCoL49 before it), where there is such a strong sense of
>> predetermination, of the discovery of a hidden order and conspiracy,
>> whether in the pattern of the V-2s falling on London or the
>> printed-circuit-like layout of San Narciso. I'm presenting this as a
>> dichotomy, but of course something of that sense of another country is in
>> the earlier books, for example in a great passage just before the end of
>> TCoL49 which I can't find online just now.  Still, from this perspective
>> you can be impressed by the intellectual pyrotechnics of GR (it is second
>> on my list, after all), and yet still think of it as a not-yet-matured work
>> relative to M&D.  If Pynchon had written M&D in the 70s and GR two decades
>> later, might their relative statures in everyone's eyes be the reverse?
>>
>> Those are just a few thoughts tonight. I reserve the right to change my
>> mind completely tomorrow.
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:58 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Those that have read all of Pynchon's novels are familiar with each ones
>>> qualities and differences. Thus there is a common unspoken understanding of
>>> the overall picture. But the fact that not everyone agrees that GR is
>>> Pynchon's masterpiece make some of wonder what's wrong with those that
>>> don't. We could start flame wars about these differences. That might be
>>> illuminating, and fun...
>>>
>>> David Morris
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, Conor McDade <fpsconor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I am only a youth, so I apologize for my naivete, but what is the point
>>>> of these lists without providing any insight as to why you listed them in
>>>> such order? Is it simply to see how people's tastes vary?
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Chris v <traditionalgb at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> 1. AtD
>>>>> 2. M&D
>>>>> 3. GR
>>>>> 4. VL
>>>>> 5. IV
>>>>> 6. CoL49
>>>>> 7. V.
>>>>> 8. SL
>>>>> 9. BE (haven't read yet)
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Why doesn't Ms. Jackson (and Thomas) make that happen, you think? Why
>>>>>> wasn't there a 50th Anniversary edition Of V? seems about every modern "
>>>>>> classic" was so " honored" Think Pynchon does not believe in such
>>>>>> anniversary editions?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2015, at 3:51 AM, James Robertson <
>>>>>> james at themutedposthorn.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I sure wish someone would record an audiobook of V, and Vineland.
>>>>>> That new George Guidall version of GR is marvellous.
>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 at 8:48 pm jochen stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2nd that!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 2015-07-22 9:55 GMT+02:00 Heikki R <
>>>>>>> situations.journeys.comedy at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> 1. Gravity's Rainbow
>>>>>>>> 2. V.
>>>>>>>> 3. Mason & Dixon
>>>>>>>> 4. The Crying of Lot 49
>>>>>>>> 5. Vineland
>>>>>>>> 6. Against the Day
>>>>>>>> 7. Inherent Vice
>>>>>>>> 8. Bleeding Edge
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> In fact, on a couple of occasions, the contestants were
>>>>>>>> shoulder-to-shoulder. But I decided to avoid ties (perhaps for tactical
>>>>>>>> reasons).
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Heikki
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 7:02 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Eaux Contraire!
>>>>>>>>> Inclusion is de facto non-flame. Love is the answer.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> David Morris
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Dave Monroe <against.the.dave at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> ...  speaking of flame wars ...
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:04 PM, David Morris <
>>>>>>>>>> fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> > Elected Officials are all we got in this semi-democracy. Love
>>>>>>>>>> it or Leave
>>>>>>>>>> > it.
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > We need to embrace democracy, with all its warts. We are
>>>>>>>>>> extremely lucky to
>>>>>>>>>> > be living in a place where we would want to discuss this
>>>>>>>>>> abstraction.
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > David Morris
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>> > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Dave Monroe <
>>>>>>>>>> against.the.dave at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> Americans will vote for almost anything except elected
>>>>>>>>>> officials.
>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:33 PM, David Morris <
>>>>>>>>>> fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> > Voting is so American Idol!  I want my choice to win!
>>>>>>>>>> >> > Face facts: Votes aren't gunna be backed up by essays.
>>>>>>>>>> >> > David Morris
>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> No, it just means that mathematical averages cannot capture
>>>>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> delightful diversity of our responses! Collating the
>>>>>>>>>> different lists
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> into one loses something the way that a plot summary of a P
>>>>>>>>>> novel will
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> never suffice.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:10 PM, David Ewers <
>>>>>>>>>> dsewers at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > I feel so redundant!
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:53 PM Jolly good day we are having,
>>>>>>>>>> John Bailey
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> The order seems to remain the same.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:55 AM, David Ewers <
>>>>>>>>>> dsewers at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Me too!
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 1. V.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 2. Gravity's Rainbow
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 3. Mason & Dixon
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 4/5. Against the Day
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 4/5. Crying of Lot 49
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 6. Vineland
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 7. Inherent Vice
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 8. Bleeding Edge
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:22 PM Jolly good day we are
>>>>>>>>>> having, Mark
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Thibodeau
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> I love the diversity of opinions, too, but I'm kind of
>>>>>>>>>> surprised at
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> how bad
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> V. is faring!
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> MT/J
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Ian Livingston
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> Love the diversity of rankings in rating one great
>>>>>>>>>> author. Rather
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> like six
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> blind men describing an elephant. We each have our
>>>>>>>>>> opinions and
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> our
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> reasons
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> for them. I love GR, I truly do, and it may be the
>>>>>>>>>> greater work
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> for
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> all it
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> did to shape postmodernism, but:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 1. M&D
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 2. GR
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 3. AtD
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 4. V. / COL 49  (tie)
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 5. Vineland
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 6. BE
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 7. IV
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 8. Slow Learner
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:48 PM, glenn fuller
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> <glennfuller at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> G.R.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> A.t.D.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> T.C.O.L.49
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> Vineland
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> M&D
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> I.V.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> B.E.
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> V
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> -
>>>>>>>>>> >> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>
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