A Ranking of Pynchon's Novels
Kai Frederik Lorentzen
lorentzen at hotmail.de
Thu Jul 23 04:04:56 CDT 2015
> That sense of contingency, that sense that things could have been
different, speaks to me, and I find it missing in GR ... <
There you speak from an American perspective. For me, as a German
person, "Gravity's Rainbow" has this sense of contingency because it
asks why we did become Nazi Germany in the 1930s and what, actually and
virtually, happened to Germany during the 1940s. In this regard the only
novel that can compete with "Gravity's Rainbow" is "Doktor Faustus" by
Thomas Mann, which was written in LA too. Paradoxically, the fact that
Pynchon knew relatively little about Germany enabled him to evoke
something crucial; and certain zeitgeist circumstances, like Acid or the
war in Vietnam, helped him to create a picture of Nazi Germany that in
many aspects shows more of the actual reality than the moralist tales of
writers like Böll and Grass; referring to the Holocaust only indirectly
is part of this writing strategy. I know, "Pynchon deserves to be
honored as an American patriot" (Naumann), but I read him from my German
perspective, too. The few true works of "Weltliteratur" (Goethe), and
"Gravity's Rainbow" certainly belongs to this exquisite canon, deserve
more than just one and the same reading. And then "Gravity's Rainbow" is
760 pages not flash prose but poetry ...
In the cases of both, "Mason & Dixon" and "Against the Day," I feel the
idea to be much better than the result. I guess the fact that these
books were long, actually too long in the pipeline plays an important
role here. Like Walter Benjamin had it: "Das Werk ist die Totenmaske der
Konzeption." The (finished) work of art is the death mask of conception.
The letters are there on the page, but the artistic thrill is gone ...
"Bleeding Edge," where Pynchon - focusing on digitalization and
terrorism - returns to the GR question of technology and control, and
"Vineland" show Pynchon II in full bloom, an author who, while having a
family of his own relatively late in life, discovers the loyalties and
disloyalties of blood ... I also think that these two are the funniest
works of Pynchon.
On 23.07.2015 03:39, Robert Mahnke wrote:
> David said, "the fact that not everyone agrees that GR is Pynchon's
> masterpiece make some of wonder what's wrong with those that don't. We
> could start flame wars about these differences. That might be
> illuminating, and fun..."
>
> Since I was one of the (few) people who didn't rank GR first, let me
> try to shed some light, but not heat. The most recent time I re-read
> GR, I was as impressed as ever with it intellectually, but it didn't
> seem as human as M&D. Maybe a central question of M&D is, Why did we
> end up with this country instead of another? That's question in many
> of Pynchon's novels (AtD (this world instead of another) and both
> Inherent Vice and Vineland (this California instead of another). That
> sense of contingency, that sense that things could have been
> different, speaks to me, and I find it missing in GR (and V and TCoL49
> before it), where there is such a strong sense of predetermination, of
> the discovery of a hidden order and conspiracy, whether in the pattern
> of the V-2s falling on London or the printed-circuit-like layout of
> San Narciso. I'm presenting this as a dichotomy, but of course
> something of that sense of another country is in the earlier books,
> for example in a great passage just before the end of TCoL49 which I
> can't find online just now. Still, from this perspective you can be
> impressed by the intellectual pyrotechnics of GR (it is second on my
> list, after all), and yet still think of it as a not-yet-matured work
> relative to M&D. If Pynchon had written M&D in the 70s and GR two
> decades later, might their relative statures in everyone's eyes be the
> reverse?
>
> Those are just a few thoughts tonight. I reserve the right to change
> my mind completely tomorrow.
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:58 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com
> <mailto:fqmorris at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Those that have read all of Pynchon's novels are familiar with
> each ones qualities and differences. Thus there is a common
> unspoken understanding of the overall picture. But the fact that
> not everyone agrees that GR is Pynchon's masterpiece make some of
> wonder what's wrong with those that don't. We could start flame
> wars about these differences. That might be illuminating, and fun...
>
> David Morris
>
> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, Conor McDade <fpsconor at gmail.com
> <mailto:fpsconor at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> I am only a youth, so I apologize for my naivete, but what is
> the point of these lists without providing any insight as to
> why you listed them in such order? Is it simply to see how
> people's tastes vary?
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Chris v
> <traditionalgb at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> 1. AtD
> 2. M&D
> 3. GR
> 4. VL
> 5. IV
> 6. CoL49
> 7. V.
> 8. SL
> 9. BE (haven't read yet)
>
> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Mark Kohut
> <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
> Why doesn't Ms. Jackson (and Thomas) make that happen,
> you think? Why wasn't there a 50th Anniversary edition
> Of V? seems about every modern " classic" was so "
> honored" Think Pynchon does not believe in such
> anniversary editions?
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> On Jul 22, 2015, at 3:51 AM, James Robertson
> <james at themutedposthorn.com> wrote:
>
>> I sure wish someone would record an audiobook of V,
>> and Vineland. That new George Guidall version of GR
>> is marvellous.
>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 at 8:48 pm jochen stremmel
>> <jstremmel at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 2nd that!
>>
>> 2015-07-22 9:55 GMT+02:00 Heikki R
>> <situations.journeys.comedy at gmail.com>:
>>
>> 1. Gravity's Rainbow
>> 2. V.
>> 3. Mason & Dixon
>> 4. The Crying of Lot 49
>> 5. Vineland
>> 6. Against the Day
>> 7. Inherent Vice
>> 8. Bleeding Edge
>>
>>
>> In fact, on a couple of occasions, the
>> contestants were shoulder-to-shoulder. But I
>> decided to avoid ties (perhaps for tactical
>> reasons).
>>
>>
>> Heikki
>>
>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 7:02 AM, David Morris
>> <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Eaux Contraire!
>> Inclusion is de facto non-flame. Love is
>> the answer.
>>
>> David Morris
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Dave Monroe
>> <against.the.dave at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> ... speaking of flame wars ...
>>
>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:04 PM,
>> David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > Elected Officials are all we got in
>> this semi-democracy. Love it or Leave
>> > it.
>> >
>> > We need to embrace democracy, with
>> all its warts. We are extremely lucky to
>> > be living in a place where we would
>> want to discuss this abstraction.
>> >
>> > David Morris
>> >
>> >
>> > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Dave
>> Monroe <against.the.dave at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Americans will vote for almost
>> anything except elected officials.
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:33 PM,
>> David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> > Voting is so American Idol! I
>> want my choice to win!
>> >> > Face facts: Votes aren't gunna
>> be backed up by essays.
>> >> > David Morris
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, John
>> Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> No, it just means that
>> mathematical averages cannot capture the
>> >> >> delightful diversity of our
>> responses! Collating the different lists
>> >> >> into one loses something the
>> way that a plot summary of a P novel will
>> >> >> never suffice.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:10
>> PM, David Ewers <dsewers at comcast.net>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > I feel so redundant!
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:53 PM
>> Jolly good day we are having, John Bailey
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> The order seems to remain
>> the same.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at
>> 11:55 AM, David Ewers
>> <dsewers at comcast.net>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >>> Me too!
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> 1. V.
>> >> >> >>> 2. Gravity's Rainbow
>> >> >> >>> 3. Mason & Dixon
>> >> >> >>> 4/5. Against the Day
>> >> >> >>> 4/5. Crying of Lot 49
>> >> >> >>> 6. Vineland
>> >> >> >>> 7. Inherent Vice
>> >> >> >>> 8. Bleeding Edge
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:22 PM
>> Jolly good day we are having, Mark
>> >> >> >>> Thibodeau
>> >> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> I love the diversity of
>> opinions, too, but I'm kind of
>> surprised at
>> >> >> >>> how bad
>> >> >> >>> V. is faring!
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> MT/J
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at
>> 9:08 PM, Ian Livingston
>> >> >> >>> <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>> >> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> Love the diversity of
>> rankings in rating one great author.
>> Rather
>> >> >> >>>> like six
>> >> >> >>>> blind men describing an
>> elephant. We each have our opinions and
>> >> >> >>>> our
>> >> >> >>>> reasons
>> >> >> >>>> for them. I love GR, I
>> truly do, and it may be the greater work
>> >> >> >>>> for
>> >> >> >>>> all it
>> >> >> >>>> did to shape
>> postmodernism, but:
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> 1. M&D
>> >> >> >>>> 2. GR
>> >> >> >>>> 3. AtD
>> >> >> >>>> 4. V. / COL 49 (tie)
>> >> >> >>>> 5. Vineland
>> >> >> >>>> 6. BE
>> >> >> >>>> 7. IV
>> >> >> >>>> 8. Slow Learner
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at
>> 5:48 PM, glenn fuller
>> >> >> >>>> <glennfuller at sbcglobal.net>
>> >> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>> G.R.
>> >> >> >>>>> A.t.D.
>> >> >> >>>>> T.C.O.L.49
>> >> >> >>>>> Vineland
>> >> >> >>>>> M&D
>> >> >> >>>>> I.V.
>> >> >> >>>>> B.E.
>> >> >> >>>>> V
>> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> -
>> >> >> Pynchon-l /
>> http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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