A Ranking of Pynchon's Novels

[Dave Monroe]

Pynchon is the post-Enlightenment/postcolonial/postwar/postmodern
world's Shakespeare.

On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 10:28 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> Fcking Yes!
> I think Faulkner is America's Shakespeare. Not so Pynchon, grand as he is.
> Faulkner isn't our Joyce, because he is direct and accessible. Faulkner is
> our American Master.
>
> David Morris
>
> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I wrote a poem about M&D about Rebekah mason. Could never write one about
>> GR--why write a poem about a poem? The only novel I think that can compare
>> to GR in terms of sheer poetic brilliance is Absalom Absalom. Faulkner I
>> will read into my senile years if I'm lucky
>>
>> rich
>>
>>
>> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> I ranked m&D third, (I love V for the same reasons I love GR) so we're
>>> not too far apart.  I prefer GRs urgency, and it's poetry.  It is more an
>>> analysis that a regret.  It dives deep into the question of  "What is?" It's
>>> paranoia is sincere. That paranoia is like a religious quest.
>>>
>>> I liked M&D very much also. I confess I've only read it once. Four times
>>> GR.
>>>
>>> David Morris
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> David said, "the fact that not everyone agrees that GR is Pynchon's
>>>> masterpiece make some of wonder what's wrong with those that don't. We could
>>>> start flame wars about these differences. That might be illuminating, and
>>>> fun..."
>>>>
>>>> Since I was one of the (few) people who didn't rank GR first, let me try
>>>> to shed some light, but not heat.  The most recent time I re-read GR, I was
>>>> as impressed as ever with it intellectually, but it didn't seem as human as
>>>> M&D.  Maybe a central question of M&D is, Why did we end up with this
>>>> country instead of another?  That's question in many of Pynchon's novels
>>>> (AtD (this world instead of another) and both Inherent Vice and Vineland
>>>> (this California instead of another). That sense of contingency, that sense
>>>> that things could have been different, speaks to me, and I find it missing
>>>> in GR (and V and TCoL49 before it), where there is such a strong sense of
>>>> predetermination, of the discovery of a hidden order and conspiracy, whether
>>>> in the pattern of the V-2s falling on London or the printed-circuit-like
>>>> layout of San Narciso. I'm presenting this as a dichotomy, but of course
>>>> something of that sense of another country is in the earlier books, for
>>>> example in a great passage just before the end of TCoL49 which I can't find
>>>> online just now.  Still, from this perspective you can be impressed by the
>>>> intellectual pyrotechnics of GR (it is second on my list, after all), and
>>>> yet still think of it as a not-yet-matured work relative to M&D.  If Pynchon
>>>> had written M&D in the 70s and GR two decades later, might their relative
>>>> statures in everyone's eyes be the reverse?
>>>>
>>>> Those are just a few thoughts tonight. I reserve the right to change my
>>>> mind completely tomorrow.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:58 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Those that have read all of Pynchon's novels are familiar with each
>>>>> ones qualities and differences. Thus there is a common unspoken
>>>>> understanding of the overall picture. But the fact that not everyone agrees
>>>>> that GR is Pynchon's masterpiece make some of wonder what's wrong with those
>>>>> that don't. We could start flame wars about these differences. That might be
>>>>> illuminating, and fun...
>>>>>
>>>>> David Morris
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, Conor McDade <fpsconor at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am only a youth, so I apologize for my naivete, but what is the
>>>>>> point of these lists without providing any insight as to why you listed them
>>>>>> in such order? Is it simply to see how people's tastes vary?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Chris v <traditionalgb at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 1. AtD
>>>>>>> 2. M&D
>>>>>>> 3. GR
>>>>>>> 4. VL
>>>>>>> 5. IV
>>>>>>> 6. CoL49
>>>>>>> 7. V.
>>>>>>> 8. SL
>>>>>>> 9. BE (haven't read yet)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Why doesn't Ms. Jackson (and Thomas) make that happen, you think?
>>>>>>>> Why wasn't there a 50th Anniversary edition Of V? seems about every modern "
>>>>>>>> classic" was so " honored" Think Pynchon does not believe in such
>>>>>>>> anniversary editions?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Jul 22, 2015, at 3:51 AM, James Robertson
>>>>>>>> <james at themutedposthorn.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I sure wish someone would record an audiobook of V, and Vineland.
>>>>>>>> That new George Guidall version of GR is marvellous.
>>>>>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 at 8:48 pm jochen stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2nd that!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> 2015-07-22 9:55 GMT+02:00 Heikki R
>>>>>>>>> <situations.journeys.comedy at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> 1. Gravity's Rainbow
>>>>>>>>>> 2. V.
>>>>>>>>>> 3. Mason & Dixon
>>>>>>>>>> 4. The Crying of Lot 49
>>>>>>>>>> 5. Vineland
>>>>>>>>>> 6. Against the Day
>>>>>>>>>> 7. Inherent Vice
>>>>>>>>>> 8. Bleeding Edge
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> In fact, on a couple of occasions, the contestants were
>>>>>>>>>> shoulder-to-shoulder. But I decided to avoid ties (perhaps for tactical
>>>>>>>>>> reasons).
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Heikki
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 7:02 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Eaux Contraire!
>>>>>>>>>>> Inclusion is de facto non-flame. Love is the answer.
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> David Morris
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Dave Monroe
>>>>>>>>>>> <against.the.dave at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> ...  speaking of flame wars ...
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:04 PM, David Morris
>>>>>>>>>>>> <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> > Elected Officials are all we got in this semi-democracy. Love
>>>>>>>>>>>> > it or Leave
>>>>>>>>>>>> > it.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > We need to embrace democracy, with all its warts. We are
>>>>>>>>>>>> > extremely lucky to
>>>>>>>>>>>> > be living in a place where we would want to discuss this
>>>>>>>>>>>> > abstraction.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > David Morris
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Dave Monroe
>>>>>>>>>>>> > <against.the.dave at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> Americans will vote for almost anything except elected
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> officials.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:33 PM, David Morris
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > Voting is so American Idol!  I want my choice to win!
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > Face facts: Votes aren't gunna be backed up by essays.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > David Morris
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> No, it just means that mathematical averages cannot
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> capture the
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> delightful diversity of our responses! Collating the
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> different lists
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> into one loses something the way that a plot summary of a
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> P novel will
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> never suffice.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:10 PM, David Ewers
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> <dsewers at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > I feel so redundant!
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:53 PM Jolly good day we are
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > having, John Bailey
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> > wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> The order seems to remain the same.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:55 AM, David Ewers
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> <dsewers at comcast.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Me too!
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 1. V.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 2. Gravity's Rainbow
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 3. Mason & Dixon
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 4/5. Against the Day
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 4/5. Crying of Lot 49
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 6. Vineland
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 7. Inherent Vice
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 8. Bleeding Edge
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:22 PM Jolly good day we are
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> having, Mark
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Thibodeau
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> I love the diversity of opinions, too, but I'm kind of
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> surprised at
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> how bad
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> V. is faring!
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> MT/J
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Ian Livingston
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> Love the diversity of rankings in rating one great
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> author. Rather
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> like six
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> blind men describing an elephant. We each have our
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> opinions and
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> our
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> reasons
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> for them. I love GR, I truly do, and it may be the
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> greater work
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> for
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> all it
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> did to shape postmodernism, but:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 1. M&D
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 2. GR
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 3. AtD
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 4. V. / COL 49  (tie)
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 5. Vineland
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 6. BE
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 7. IV
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 8. Slow Learner
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:48 PM, glenn fuller
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> <glennfuller at sbcglobal.net>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> G.R.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> A.t.D.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> T.C.O.L.49
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> Vineland
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> M&D
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> I.V.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> B.E.
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> V
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> >
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> -
>>>>>>>>>>>> >> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>
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Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l