A Ranking of Pynchon's Novels

[Heikki R]

Current standings (21 respondents) on a scale of 1 (least good) to 8 (best):


1. Gravity's Rainbow     (156 points - average 7,43)
2. Mason & Dixon         (131 points - average 6,24)
3. V.                            (108,5 points - average 5,17)
4. The Crying of Lot 49  (96 points - average 4,57)
5. Against the Day        (82,5 points - average 3,93)
6. Vineland                   (77 points - average 3,67)
7. Bleeding Edge          (50 points - average 2,38)
8. Inherent Vice            (40 points - average 1,90)


The results/averages are not wholly reliable as not every respondent ranked
all the novels. I ignored Slow Learner.


Heikki

On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 11:18 AM, Dave Monroe <against.the.dave at gmail.com>
wrote:

> "Could he [Wm. Slothrop] have been the fork in the road America never
> took, the singular point she jumped the wrong way from? ... It seems
> to Tyrone Slothrop that there might be a route back." (GR, Pt. III, p.
> 556)
>
> http://www.ottosell.de/pynchon/rainbow.htm
>
> On Thu, Jul 23, 2015 at 4:04 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen
> <lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:
> >
> >> That sense of contingency, that sense that things could have been
> >> different, speaks to me, and I find it missing in GR ... <
> >
> > There you speak from an American perspective. For me, as a German person,
> > "Gravity's Rainbow" has this sense of contingency because it asks why we
> did
> > become Nazi Germany in the 1930s and what, actually and virtually,
> happened
> > to Germany during the 1940s. In this regard the only novel that can
> compete
> > with "Gravity's Rainbow" is "Doktor Faustus" by Thomas Mann, which was
> > written in LA too. Paradoxically, the fact that Pynchon knew relatively
> > little about Germany enabled him to evoke something crucial; and certain
> > zeitgeist circumstances, like Acid or the war in Vietnam, helped him to
> > create a picture of Nazi Germany that in many aspects shows more of the
> > actual reality than the moralist tales of writers like Böll and Grass;
> > referring to the Holocaust only indirectly is part of this writing
> strategy.
> > I know, "Pynchon deserves to be honored as an American patriot"
> (Naumann),
> > but I read him from my German perspective, too. The few true works of
> > "Weltliteratur" (Goethe), and "Gravity's Rainbow" certainly belongs to
> this
> > exquisite canon, deserve more than just one and the same reading. And
> then
> > "Gravity's Rainbow" is 760 pages not flash prose but poetry ...
> >
> > In the cases of both, "Mason & Dixon"  and "Against the Day," I feel the
> > idea to be much better than the result. I guess the fact that these books
> > were long, actually too long in the pipeline plays an important role
> here.
> > Like Walter Benjamin had it: "Das Werk ist die Totenmaske der
> Konzeption."
> > The (finished) work of art is the death mask of conception. The letters
> are
> > there on the page, but the artistic thrill is gone ...
> >
> > "Bleeding Edge," where Pynchon - focusing on digitalization and
> terrorism -
> > returns to the GR question of technology and control, and "Vineland" show
> > Pynchon II in full bloom, an author who, while having a family of his own
> > relatively late in life, discovers the loyalties and disloyalties of
> blood
> > ... I also think that these two are the funniest works of Pynchon.
> >
> >
> >
> > On 23.07.2015 03:39, Robert Mahnke wrote:
> >
> > David said, "the fact that not everyone agrees that GR is Pynchon's
> > masterpiece make some of wonder what's wrong with those that don't. We
> could
> > start flame wars about these differences. That might be illuminating, and
> > fun..."
> >
> > Since I was one of the (few) people who didn't rank GR first, let me try
> to
> > shed some light, but not heat.  The most recent time I re-read GR, I was
> as
> > impressed as ever with it intellectually, but it didn't seem as human as
> > M&D.  Maybe a central question of M&D is, Why did we end up with this
> > country instead of another?  That's question in many of Pynchon's novels
> > (AtD (this world instead of another) and both Inherent Vice and Vineland
> > (this California instead of another). That sense of contingency, that
> sense
> > that things could have been different, speaks to me, and I find it
> missing
> > in GR (and V and TCoL49 before it), where there is such a strong sense of
> > predetermination, of the discovery of a hidden order and conspiracy,
> whether
> > in the pattern of the V-2s falling on London or the printed-circuit-like
> > layout of San Narciso. I'm presenting this as a dichotomy, but of course
> > something of that sense of another country is in the earlier books, for
> > example in a great passage just before the end of TCoL49 which I can't
> find
> > online just now.  Still, from this perspective you can be impressed by
> the
> > intellectual pyrotechnics of GR (it is second on my list, after all), and
> > yet still think of it as a not-yet-matured work relative to M&D.  If
> Pynchon
> > had written M&D in the 70s and GR two decades later, might their relative
> > statures in everyone's eyes be the reverse?
> >
> > Those are just a few thoughts tonight. I reserve the right to change my
> mind
> > completely tomorrow.
> >
> > On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 4:58 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Those that have read all of Pynchon's novels are familiar with each ones
> >> qualities and differences. Thus there is a common unspoken
> understanding of
> >> the overall picture. But the fact that not everyone agrees that GR is
> >> Pynchon's masterpiece make some of wonder what's wrong with those that
> >> don't. We could start flame wars about these differences. That might be
> >> illuminating, and fun...
> >>
> >> David Morris
> >>
> >> On Wednesday, July 22, 2015, Conor McDade <fpsconor at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> I am only a youth, so I apologize for my naivete, but what is the point
> >>> of these lists without providing any insight as to why you listed them
> in
> >>> such order? Is it simply to see how people's tastes vary?
> >>>
> >>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 3:29 PM, Chris v <traditionalgb at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> 1. AtD
> >>>> 2. M&D
> >>>> 3. GR
> >>>> 4. VL
> >>>> 5. IV
> >>>> 6. CoL49
> >>>> 7. V.
> >>>> 8. SL
> >>>> 9. BE (haven't read yet)
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 6:19 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Why doesn't Ms. Jackson (and Thomas) make that happen, you think? Why
> >>>>> wasn't there a 50th Anniversary edition Of V? seems about every
> modern "
> >>>>> classic" was so " honored" Think Pynchon does not believe in such
> >>>>> anniversary editions?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Jul 22, 2015, at 3:51 AM, James Robertson
> >>>>> <james at themutedposthorn.com> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I sure wish someone would record an audiobook of V, and Vineland.
> That
> >>>>> new George Guidall version of GR is marvellous.
> >>>>> On Wed, 22 Jul 2015 at 8:48 pm jochen stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2nd that!
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> 2015-07-22 9:55 GMT+02:00 Heikki R
> >>>>>> <situations.journeys.comedy at gmail.com>:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> 1. Gravity's Rainbow
> >>>>>>> 2. V.
> >>>>>>> 3. Mason & Dixon
> >>>>>>> 4. The Crying of Lot 49
> >>>>>>> 5. Vineland
> >>>>>>> 6. Against the Day
> >>>>>>> 7. Inherent Vice
> >>>>>>> 8. Bleeding Edge
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> In fact, on a couple of occasions, the contestants were
> >>>>>>> shoulder-to-shoulder. But I decided to avoid ties (perhaps for
> tactical
> >>>>>>> reasons).
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Heikki
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 7:02 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Eaux Contraire!
> >>>>>>>> Inclusion is de facto non-flame. Love is the answer.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> David Morris
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Dave Monroe <
> against.the.dave at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> ...  speaking of flame wars ...
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 11:04 PM, David Morris <
> fqmorris at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> > Elected Officials are all we got in this semi-democracy. Love
> it
> >>>>>>>>> > or Leave
> >>>>>>>>> > it.
> >>>>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>>>> > We need to embrace democracy, with all its warts. We are
> >>>>>>>>> > extremely lucky to
> >>>>>>>>> > be living in a place where we would want to discuss this
> >>>>>>>>> > abstraction.
> >>>>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>>>> > David Morris
> >>>>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>>>> >
> >>>>>>>>> > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, Dave Monroe
> >>>>>>>>> > <against.the.dave at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>>> >> Americans will vote for almost anything except elected
> >>>>>>>>> >> officials.
> >>>>>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>>>> >> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:33 PM, David Morris
> >>>>>>>>> >> <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> >> > Voting is so American Idol!  I want my choice to win!
> >>>>>>>>> >> > Face facts: Votes aren't gunna be backed up by essays.
> >>>>>>>>> >> > David Morris
> >>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>>>>>>>> >> >
> >>>>>>>>> >> > On Tuesday, July 21, 2015, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>> >> > wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> >> >>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> No, it just means that mathematical averages cannot capture
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> the
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> delightful diversity of our responses! Collating the
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> different lists
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> into one loses something the way that a plot summary of a P
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> novel will
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> never suffice.
> >>>>>>>>> >> >>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 12:10 PM, David Ewers
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> <dsewers at comcast.net>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> > I feel so redundant!
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> > On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:53 PM Jolly good day we are having,
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> > John Bailey
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> > wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >> The order seems to remain the same.
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >> On Wed, Jul 22, 2015 at 11:55 AM, David Ewers
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >> <dsewers at comcast.net>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Me too!
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 1. V.
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 2. Gravity's Rainbow
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 3. Mason & Dixon
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 4/5. Against the Day
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 4/5. Crying of Lot 49
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 6. Vineland
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 7. Inherent Vice
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> 8. Bleeding Edge
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> On Jul 21, 2015, at 6:22 PM Jolly good day we are
> having,
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Mark
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> Thibodeau
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> I love the diversity of opinions, too, but I'm kind of
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> surprised at
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> how bad
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> V. is faring!
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> MT/J
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 9:08 PM, Ian Livingston
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> <igrlivingston at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> Love the diversity of rankings in rating one great
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> author. Rather
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> like six
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> blind men describing an elephant. We each have our
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> opinions and
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> our
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> reasons
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> for them. I love GR, I truly do, and it may be the
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> greater work
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> for
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> all it
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> did to shape postmodernism, but:
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 1. M&D
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 2. GR
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 3. AtD
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 4. V. / COL 49  (tie)
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 5. Vineland
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 6. BE
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 7. IV
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> 8. Slow Learner
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> On Tue, Jul 21, 2015 at 5:48 PM, glenn fuller
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> <glennfuller at sbcglobal.net>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> G.R.
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> A.t.D.
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> T.C.O.L.49
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> Vineland
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> M&D
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> I.V.
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> B.E.
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>> V
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >>>
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> >
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> -
> >>>>>>>>> >> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >
> >
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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