Europe having its own 9/11 right now. Turn on the news.

[Steven Koteff]

But then the great part about any real A) intellectual community and B)
family (both of which I believe describe this list) is that someone can
offer an idea that maybe isn't fully considered or that comes from a
less-than-optimal version of themselves (e.g. sleep-deprived//because
aren't we all always less-than-optimal versions of ourselves?) and then not
be exiled or shunned or whatever. Not be held to that version of themselves
forever. Even in real life we don't always get that; what makes this list
wonderful is that we get it here.

You guys--Mark and David, specif--make this place what it is. I take from
it so much more than I give, and only today am realizing the extent to
which I actually rely on it. So thanks to the both of yas.

Steve

On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 1:01 PM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at gmail.com> wrote:

> Some remarkable posts today.
>
> It may tragedy to get people really talking.
>
> Thanks, all.
>
> Incidentally, I didn't take Mark's words saying, look Europe over there,
> now you know what it's like. He was just doing what Steven said about
> showing empathy.
>
> P
>
> P
>
> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 1:23 PM, Momò Nin <momonin at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't know either.
>> I just feel deeply sad for the disaster and also for people's reaction.
>>
>> when I saw Mark's post,
>> I understood it, I didn't think its a wrong title, but it wasn't correct
>> to me either.
>> at least I felt I could share a "consensus" by reading it.
>>
>> I am a taiwanese, educated in south italy, now living and working in
>> dublin, ireland,
>> my facebook is always a fantastic field for me to discover how people
>> could care the same matter so differently.
>> (i have friends from all over the asia...right/left wing italians...and
>> many more)
>> So, the "consensus" I read today was wonderful.
>>
>> Dave Monroe was lucky for a day like today.
>>
>> beasie the is bullshit,
>> my complains are mainly about all the english speaking medias.
>> they are all unfair in relaity...
>>
>> Peace and hugs
>>
>> Momò
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 14 November 2015 at 17:38, Steven Koteff <steviekoteff at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Oh I dunno. I mean it kind of seems to me like interpreting the
>>> suffering of others via our own closer experience of it is probably
>>> foundational to the phenomenon of empathy. Right? I mean isn't that one of
>>> the nobler applications of our fundamental tendency toward
>>> self-centeredness? Yes, I can see how doing so via labelling an act of
>>> terror a different (and therefore maybe by definition lesser) version of
>>> some original (in this case 9/11) might seem not the absolute most
>>> sensitive/aware of all possible avenues for talking about this.
>>>
>>> But, like, as a follower but infrequent participant of this list, I was
>>> very moved by the instinctive collectivization of grief and love for Dave
>>> Monroe yesterday.
>>>
>>> When I read about the Paris shit, I instantly thought of this list.
>>> Because one can see, instantly, the horrible potential long-term ripples
>>> (like, military ripples, international ripples, historical ripples) of
>>> something like this. Which made me feel kind of worried about the way the
>>> French and the world would respond/change. And made me feel inadequate to
>>> really understand the situation. But then it made me feel good to think of
>>> this community. Made me feel like there was a transnational space in which
>>> love permeated such membranes as country et al. And in which there were
>>> people who could communicate in any variety of ways about extremely
>>> difficult shit, all toward some better end (or none at all, unlike[...]).
>>>
>>> Being sensitive/empathetic in the wrong way is maybe not the most
>>> deserving (or productive) victim of our scorn today. [My humble opining.]
>>>
>>> I would like to express a lot of sadness for The Paris Shit. I visited
>>> there for the first time in the fall and while that shouldn't increase
>>> one's personal grief for something like this, especially in light of all
>>> the other countries experiencing their own version of The Shit, it does,
>>> and did for me. But then also I do not mean to imply that I am more
>>> impacted than anyone else; I'm not. I would like anyone who is impacted to
>>> know that they have my sympathy and love and, if they want it, my
>>> attention--and in doing so I might think it wise to express that I was sort
>>> of witness to a massive and unjustifiable and horrifying act of terror in
>>> my own country (but don't mean to diminish what's going on in theirs, or to
>>> them). Etc. Suddenly I'm more focused on qualifying my love and support and
>>> grief than feeling it. Or, Jesus, enacting it.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Nov 14, 2015 at 11:03 AM, David Kilroy <thesaintgodard at gmail.com
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> To parse the tragedy at Bataclan as It Happened To America First is
>>>> crass. We know what you meant, but the american branding of crisis
>>>> isn't applicable, particularly in re: Europe, which has suffered
>>>> zealotry far harder than americans have any emotional metric for. I'm
>>>> sure a couple of Londoners thought 7-7 but even a Hackney crackhead
>>>> has more class than to say Ich Bin Ein Berliner about this madness.
>>>> Sept 11th is a measure for naval gazing, not catastrophe.
>>>> -
>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
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