Bleeding Edge, pp. 312-313

Mon Nov 16 16:24:06 CST 2015

this is excellent - thank you

On 16 November 2015 at 17:13, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:

> I highly, highly recommend this short-ish podcast on the humdrum
> everyday workings of ISIS as well as their social media presence -
> it's evidence-based rather than speculative psycho-pathologising. Also
> deeply weird, looking at just how much of the terrorist's time is
> spent filling out invoices and claims and other paperwork, and having
> them returned by a superior for being incorrectly filed etc. And the
> main source is a journalist who is in constant communication with
> actual members of IS, so again it's not just someone opining or making
> a vague ideological argument.
>
> https://gimletmedia.com/episode/33-isis/
>
> On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 8:45 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Did you counter with: you shouldn't watch so much TV?
> >
> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Reminds me of when I was watching the news of the theater shooting in
> >> Aurora with my aunt, who is clueless about all the books she sees me
> >> reading, and the news anchor mentions the kid spent a lot of time
> studying.
> >> My aunt looked at me, almost horrified, and said, "you shouldn't read so
> >> much."
> >>
> >>
> >> On Monday, November 16, 2015, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Again, this is not to say that sexual frustration or bitter misogyny
> >>> leads directly to mass murder. If it did, we would live in a very
> dangerous
> >>> world indeed. But they cannot be dismissed as factors. It has long been
> >>> assumed that young men are better fighters when they are deprived of
> sex,
> >>> like slavering dogs fighting in a pit.
> >>>
> >>> Extremism: the loser's revenge
> >>>
> >>> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/feb/25/terrorism.comment
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 3:36 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
> >>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Journey to Jihad
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/01/journey-to-jihad
> >>>>
> >>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 3:34 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Losers, then. That the people you mention put their love into art or
> >>>>> music or some other constructive and creative passion argues my
> point. Of
> >>>>> course my emphasis on the sexual frustrations is a bit hyperbolic,
> but my
> >>>>> point is that these boys were not brilliantly coordinating a war
> plan but
> >>>>> were losers who were easily exploited. And, while we need to condemn
> their
> >>>>> atrocities, we need no elevate their stupid and senseless acts of
> murder to
> >>>>> a war that we can only win if NATO bombs even more people, drones
> even more
> >>>>> people and etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> These were losers. Like the idiots up in Boston. Like the boys
> wielding
> >>>>> knives in Israel....etc.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 1:45 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It's way too easy to write these guys off as losers who can't get
> >>>>>> laid. Hey, I've known plenty of people who've never had a serious
> >>>>>> relationship, and rarely, if ever have gotten laid. They channel
> their
> >>>>>> frustration into obsessions with art, film, music. You know the
> type. Should
> >>>>>> we start pointing fingers at anyone who hasn't been in a
> relationship?
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> That Guardian article Mark posted makes it clear: ISIS attracts many
> >>>>>> people with solid people skills, who, in turn are able to spend
> hours and
> >>>>>> hours on line, luring others (girls as well as boys) into the
> movement. Few
> >>>>>> losers-who-can't-get-laid have that amount of social finesse. And a
> big
> >>>>>> selling point is the trading of a humdrum life for the romance of
> fighting
> >>>>>> and/or dying for the "cause." Sure, it's easier to lure in the
> mentally ill,
> >>>>>> the lonely, the broke. But their ability to lure in romantics and
> idealists,
> >>>>>> and skew their world-view so much that the death of innocents -
> even little
> >>>>>> Muslim kids - becomes lost in the swell of glory of the cause,
> well, that's
> >>>>>> the truly scary part.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> It emphasizes the stupidity of cracking down on the Occupy
> encampments
> >>>>>> - they provided a solid grounding point for restless romantics. We
> need more
> >>>>>> of that.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Laura
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> From: ish mailian
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Sent: Nov 16, 2015 11:11 AM
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> To: Pynchon-l at waste.org
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Subject: Re: Bleeding Edge, pp. 312-313
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Nah, they are losers. They tried to fit in, to have a girl....these
> >>>>>> boys and the men who sent them to an early grave did not act
> heroically,
> >>>>>> this was no  "brilliantly coordinated act of war" (the Esquire
> article);
> >>>>>> that the fools exploded their vests, spilling their guts outside
> the stadium
> >>>>>> is evidence that they were boys sent on a mission, like the boys
> who marched
> >>>>>> across minefields, like so many boys in war....
> >>>>>> Poor boys. Never even made love. They never made war either.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:03 AM, David Kilroy
> >>>>>> <thesaintgodard at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>> These 'losers' are indoctrinated and brainwashed same as any marine
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> sniper. As damaged, in their way, as any Starkweather. To simplify
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> them as Losers is too 2-D, too subjective, too dismissive. These
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> people, their worldview, has to be understood to be effectively
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> opposed. Not everyone who opts for celibacy hates sex. Sex is life
> but
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> it isn't the only reason to live. Additionally it's a fair bet the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> bombers wanked as much as anyone. The 100 percent celibate is very,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> very rare. Masturbation may be self-love but it's hardly a
> substitute
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> for empathy. Empathy is what's damaged in these killers: they're
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> taught to not see humanity but an evidence of humanity's failure in
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> the eyes of Allah. WE are the 'losers' to them: we are the Them to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> their Us. Sex alone cannot cure that psychosis.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On 11/16/15, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> > Even the losers get lucky sometimes. But these losers, boys for
> the
> >>>>>> > most
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> > part, don't get that, so they hate themselves, hate women, hate
> sex,
> >>>>>> > and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> > sport, and rock and roll and restaurants and good food and drink,
> >>>>>> > and a
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> > good time. How unfortunate. To aggrandize the anxiety of these
> >>>>>> > losers, to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> > make them ideological spokesmen of the Palestinian plight, the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> > Post-Colonial rebound, the effect of Orientalists and Oil, is
> silly.
> >>>>>> > These
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> > boys are losers. Masturbation may have prevented this, and a good
> >>>>>> > night out
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> > and some sex would have surely.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Jochen Stremmel
> >>>>>> > <jstremmel at gmail.com>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> > wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >> Come now, you who say,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >> <https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jas4.13-15#footnote1>“Today
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >> or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year
> >>>>>> >> there
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >> and
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >> trade and make a profit”— yet you do not know what tomorrow will
> >>>>>> >> bring.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >> What is your life? For
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >> <https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jas4.13-15#footnote2>you
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >> are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.
> >>>>>> >> Instead you
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >> ought to say,
> >>>>>> >> <https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jas4.13-15#footnote3>“If the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >> Lord wills, we will live and do this or that.”
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >> 2015-11-16 11:12 GMT+01:00 Mark Thibodeau <
> jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>> Hm.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 5:02 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen <
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>> lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>    In the taxi on the way home, there's loud traffic in Arabic
> on
> >>>>>> >>>> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> radio, which Maxine figures at first for a call-in show till
> the
> >>>>>> >>>> cabbie
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> picks up a handset and joins in. She glances at the ID up on
> the
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> Plexiglas.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> The face in the photo is too indistinct to make out, but the
> name
> >>>>>> >>>> is
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> Islamic, Mohammed somebody.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>    It's like hearing a party from another room, though Maxine
> >>>>>> >>>> notices
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> there's no music, no laughing. High emotion all right, but
> closer
> >>>>>> >>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> tears
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> or anger. Men talking over each other, shouting, interrupting.
> A
> >>>>>> >>>> couple
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> of
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> the voices might be women's, though later it will seem they
> could
> >>>>>> >>>> have
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> belonged to high-pitched men. The only word Maxine recognizes,
> >>>>>> >>>> and she
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> hears it more than once, is *Inshallah*. "Arabic for
> 'whatever,'"
> >>>>>> >>>> Horst
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> nods.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>    They're waiting at a light. "If it is God's will," the
> driver
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> corrects him, half turning in his seat so that Maxine happens
> to
> >>>>>> >>>> be
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> looking
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> him in the face. What she sees there will keep her from getting
> >>>>>> >>>> to
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> sleep
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>> right away. Or that's how she'll remember it.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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