Bleeding Edge, pp. 312-313

Mon Nov 16 16:13:54 CST 2015

I highly, highly recommend this short-ish podcast on the humdrum
everyday workings of ISIS as well as their social media presence -
it's evidence-based rather than speculative psycho-pathologising. Also
deeply weird, looking at just how much of the terrorist's time is
spent filling out invoices and claims and other paperwork, and having
them returned by a superior for being incorrectly filed etc. And the
main source is a journalist who is in constant communication with
actual members of IS, so again it's not just someone opining or making
a vague ideological argument.

https://gimletmedia.com/episode/33-isis/

On Tue, Nov 17, 2015 at 8:45 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
> Did you counter with: you shouldn't watch so much TV?
>
> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 3:51 PM, Perry Noid <coolwithdoc at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Reminds me of when I was watching the news of the theater shooting in
>> Aurora with my aunt, who is clueless about all the books she sees me
>> reading, and the news anchor mentions the kid spent a lot of time studying.
>> My aunt looked at me, almost horrified, and said, "you shouldn't read so
>> much."
>>
>>
>> On Monday, November 16, 2015, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Again, this is not to say that sexual frustration or bitter misogyny
>>> leads directly to mass murder. If it did, we would live in a very dangerous
>>> world indeed. But they cannot be dismissed as factors. It has long been
>>> assumed that young men are better fighters when they are deprived of sex,
>>> like slavering dogs fighting in a pit.
>>>
>>> Extremism: the loser's revenge
>>>
>>> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2006/feb/25/terrorism.comment
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 3:36 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Journey to Jihad
>>>>
>>>> http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2015/06/01/journey-to-jihad
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 3:34 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Losers, then. That the people you mention put their love into art or
>>>>> music or some other constructive and creative passion argues my point. Of
>>>>> course my emphasis on the sexual frustrations is a bit hyperbolic, but my
>>>>> point is that these boys were not brilliantly coordinating a war plan but
>>>>> were losers who were easily exploited. And, while we need to condemn their
>>>>> atrocities, we need no elevate their stupid and senseless acts of murder to
>>>>> a war that we can only win if NATO bombs even more people, drones even more
>>>>> people and etc.
>>>>>
>>>>> These were losers. Like the idiots up in Boston. Like the boys wielding
>>>>> knives in Israel....etc.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 1:45 PM, <kelber at mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It's way too easy to write these guys off as losers who can't get
>>>>>> laid. Hey, I've known plenty of people who've never had a serious
>>>>>> relationship, and rarely, if ever have gotten laid. They channel their
>>>>>> frustration into obsessions with art, film, music. You know the type. Should
>>>>>> we start pointing fingers at anyone who hasn't been in a relationship?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That Guardian article Mark posted makes it clear: ISIS attracts many
>>>>>> people with solid people skills, who, in turn are able to spend hours and
>>>>>> hours on line, luring others (girls as well as boys) into the movement. Few
>>>>>> losers-who-can't-get-laid have that amount of social finesse. And a big
>>>>>> selling point is the trading of a humdrum life for the romance of fighting
>>>>>> and/or dying for the "cause." Sure, it's easier to lure in the mentally ill,
>>>>>> the lonely, the broke. But their ability to lure in romantics and idealists,
>>>>>> and skew their world-view so much that the death of innocents - even little
>>>>>> Muslim kids - becomes lost in the swell of glory of the cause, well, that's
>>>>>> the truly scary part.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It emphasizes the stupidity of cracking down on the Occupy encampments
>>>>>> - they provided a solid grounding point for restless romantics. We need more
>>>>>> of that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Laura
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>
>>>>>> From: ish mailian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sent: Nov 16, 2015 11:11 AM
>>>>>>
>>>>>> To: Pynchon-l at waste.org
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Subject: Re: Bleeding Edge, pp. 312-313
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nah, they are losers. They tried to fit in, to have a girl....these
>>>>>> boys and the men who sent them to an early grave did not act heroically,
>>>>>> this was no  "brilliantly coordinated act of war" (the Esquire article);
>>>>>> that the fools exploded their vests, spilling their guts outside the stadium
>>>>>> is evidence that they were boys sent on a mission, like the boys who marched
>>>>>> across minefields, like so many boys in war....
>>>>>> Poor boys. Never even made love. They never made war either.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 10:03 AM, David Kilroy
>>>>>> <thesaintgodard at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>> These 'losers' are indoctrinated and brainwashed same as any marine
>>>>>>
>>>>>> sniper. As damaged, in their way, as any Starkweather. To simplify
>>>>>>
>>>>>> them as Losers is too 2-D, too subjective, too dismissive. These
>>>>>>
>>>>>> people, their worldview, has to be understood to be effectively
>>>>>>
>>>>>> opposed. Not everyone who opts for celibacy hates sex. Sex is life but
>>>>>>
>>>>>> it isn't the only reason to live. Additionally it's a fair bet the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> bombers wanked as much as anyone. The 100 percent celibate is very,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> very rare. Masturbation may be self-love but it's hardly a substitute
>>>>>>
>>>>>> for empathy. Empathy is what's damaged in these killers: they're
>>>>>>
>>>>>> taught to not see humanity but an evidence of humanity's failure in
>>>>>>
>>>>>> the eyes of Allah. WE are the 'losers' to them: we are the Them to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> their Us. Sex alone cannot cure that psychosis.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11/16/15, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Even the losers get lucky sometimes. But these losers, boys for the
>>>>>> > most
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > part, don't get that, so they hate themselves, hate women, hate sex,
>>>>>> > and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > sport, and rock and roll and restaurants and good food and drink,
>>>>>> > and a
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > good time. How unfortunate. To aggrandize the anxiety of these
>>>>>> > losers, to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > make them ideological spokesmen of the Palestinian plight, the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > Post-Colonial rebound, the effect of Orientalists and Oil, is silly.
>>>>>> > These
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > boys are losers. Masturbation may have prevented this, and a good
>>>>>> > night out
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > and some sex would have surely.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 6:21 AM, Jochen Stremmel
>>>>>> > <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Come now, you who say,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> <https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jas4.13-15#footnote1>“Today
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> or tomorrow we will go into such and such a town and spend a year
>>>>>> >> there
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> and
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> trade and make a profit”— yet you do not know what tomorrow will
>>>>>> >> bring.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> What is your life? For
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> <https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jas4.13-15#footnote2>you
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> are a mist that appears for a little time and then vanishes.
>>>>>> >> Instead you
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> ought to say,
>>>>>> >> <https://biblia.com/bible/esv/Jas4.13-15#footnote3>“If the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> Lord wills, we will live and do this or that.”
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >> 2015-11-16 11:12 GMT+01:00 Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> Hm.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> On Mon, Nov 16, 2015 at 5:02 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen <
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>> lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>    In the taxi on the way home, there's loud traffic in Arabic on
>>>>>> >>>> the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> radio, which Maxine figures at first for a call-in show till the
>>>>>> >>>> cabbie
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> picks up a handset and joins in. She glances at the ID up on the
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Plexiglas.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> The face in the photo is too indistinct to make out, but the name
>>>>>> >>>> is
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> Islamic, Mohammed somebody.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>    It's like hearing a party from another room, though Maxine
>>>>>> >>>> notices
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> there's no music, no laughing. High emotion all right, but closer
>>>>>> >>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> tears
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> or anger. Men talking over each other, shouting, interrupting. A
>>>>>> >>>> couple
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> of
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> the voices might be women's, though later it will seem they could
>>>>>> >>>> have
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> belonged to high-pitched men. The only word Maxine recognizes,
>>>>>> >>>> and she
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> hears it more than once, is *Inshallah*. "Arabic for 'whatever,'"
>>>>>> >>>> Horst
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> nods.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>    They're waiting at a light. "If it is God's will," the driver
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> corrects him, half turning in his seat so that Maxine happens to
>>>>>> >>>> be
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> looking
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> him in the face. What she sees there will keep her from getting
>>>>>> >>>> to
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> sleep
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>> right away. Or that's how she'll remember it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>
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Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l