Brilliantly, sadly observed

[ish mailian]

My bad. The arguments advanced are unsophisticated, too focused on the
rants and sound bites, the trite and worn out phrases in the media. We, the
US, did not give birth to ISIS. Repeating this mantra of the media, pasting
the terrorism label on the West...etc.... undermines the thesis, one that I
agree with, but one that requires that the facts are set out and not
muddled by the passions.

On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> These are not arguments, they are insults; sound bite, rant, hand
> wringing, naive.  You are not getting published, and are not a respected
> political voice and there are many highly qualified observers who say
> fundamentally what I am saying. This POV is not a product of naivety but of
> sane and equable moral evaluation. You talk as though The US army and
> commerce brings peace and stability wherever it goes, but there is a
> shitload of evidence against that premise. It is the mainstream press that
> is suspect and produces reams of meaningless propaganda and is most often
> caught lying, along with the military.
> > On Nov 27, 2015, at 3:41 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Did we pretty much midwife an Islamic state? No. We did not. That is
> sound bite.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 1:17 PM, David Kilroy <thesaintgodard at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > Considering we pretty much midwived the existence of the Islamic State I
> don't think we merit much understanding.
> >
> > Not for a second saying the terrorists are right, but I understand
> precisely why we're perceived as the great satan.  Our government has done
> everything in its power to destabilize the middle east, murder & impoverish
> hundreds of thousands of people and it's an absolute fucking disgrace.
> >
> > http://thedollop.libsyn.com/122-the-iraq-war
> > ​
> > Professional comedians can't even manage to make jokes about it.  It's
> just an abysmal state of affairs.  Our government has made its citizenry
> complicit in wars where we refuse to keep a body count or allow ourselves
> to be held accountable to international law.  We've held POWs for over a
> decade without trial.  How has that made us secure?  MY GOVERNMENT HAS MADE
> ME COMPLICIT IN WAR CRIMES.  The people in Guantanamo are hostages,
> political pawns who have been abused physically & mentally, and no amount
> of therapy will heal that.  Call me naive all you want: this shit matters.
> We look like fucking barbarians.
> >
> > The U.S. hasn't made things any more secure.  It's made American
> citizens targets wherever we go: U.S. policies have created a climate of
> hatred & danger for citizens traveling abroad.  It's infuriating.  We're
> losers for believing we're in any way righteous.
> >
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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