Brilliantly, sadly observed

[David Morris]

Was not Daesh birthed by the U.S. Action in Iraq?
Why is that not correct?

David Morris

On Saturday, November 28, 2015, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:

> My bad. The arguments advanced are unsophisticated, too focused on the
> rants and sound bites, the trite and worn out phrases in the media. We, the
> US, did not give birth to ISIS. Repeating this mantra of the media, pasting
> the terrorism label on the West...etc.... undermines the thesis, one that I
> agree with, but one that requires that the facts are set out and not
> muddled by the passions.
>
> On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 8:14 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net
> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','brook7 at sover.net');>> wrote:
>
>> These are not arguments, they are insults; sound bite, rant, hand
>> wringing, naive.  You are not getting published, and are not a respected
>> political voice and there are many highly qualified observers who say
>> fundamentally what I am saying. This POV is not a product of naivety but of
>> sane and equable moral evaluation. You talk as though The US army and
>> commerce brings peace and stability wherever it goes, but there is a
>> shitload of evidence against that premise. It is the mainstream press that
>> is suspect and produces reams of meaningless propaganda and is most often
>> caught lying, along with the military.
>> > On Nov 27, 2015, at 3:41 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','ishmailian at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>> >
>> > Did we pretty much midwife an Islamic state? No. We did not. That is
>> sound bite.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Fri, Nov 27, 2015 at 1:17 PM, David Kilroy <thesaintgodard at gmail.com
>> <javascript:_e(%7B%7D,'cvml','thesaintgodard at gmail.com');>> wrote:
>> > Considering we pretty much midwived the existence of the Islamic State
>> I don't think we merit much understanding.
>> >
>> > Not for a second saying the terrorists are right, but I understand
>> precisely why we're perceived as the great satan.  Our government has done
>> everything in its power to destabilize the middle east, murder & impoverish
>> hundreds of thousands of people and it's an absolute fucking disgrace.
>> >
>> > http://thedollop.libsyn.com/122-the-iraq-war
>> > ​
>> > Professional comedians can't even manage to make jokes about it.  It's
>> just an abysmal state of affairs.  Our government has made its citizenry
>> complicit in wars where we refuse to keep a body count or allow ourselves
>> to be held accountable to international law.  We've held POWs for over a
>> decade without trial.  How has that made us secure?  MY GOVERNMENT HAS MADE
>> ME COMPLICIT IN WAR CRIMES.  The people in Guantanamo are hostages,
>> political pawns who have been abused physically & mentally, and no amount
>> of therapy will heal that.  Call me naive all you want: this shit matters.
>> We look like fucking barbarians.
>> >
>> > The U.S. hasn't made things any more secure.  It's made American
>> citizens targets wherever we go: U.S. policies have created a climate of
>> hatred & danger for citizens traveling abroad.  It's infuriating.  We're
>> losers for believing we're in any way righteous.
>> >
>>
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>
>
>
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