(np) What the Slaughter of Christians in Lahore Says About the Global Jihad

Fri Apr 1 11:22:05 CDT 2016

Kai, what do you suggest, if anything, about dealing with the present
situation?

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Damn...
>
> Www.innergroovemusic.com
>
> > On Apr 1, 2016, at 4:11 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen <lorentzen at hotmail.de>
> wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Those thanatoid Sharia fascists don't give a damn whether you are a
> "peaceful believer" or not. And while you want "to evolve" - I, no irony,
> really like that! -, the world caliphate they're going for will be one big
> regression: The middle Ages with smartphones and AKs. Not a good place for
> independent women, dopers or homosexuals. The problem by now is worldwide,
> in no way restricted to the gulf region. And it's not a matter of
> economics. I like to talk with folks, all kind of folks, about books too,
> but what are you doing when the only book to talk about is the Koran?
> >
> > The (contemporary) military interventions of the West do not kill
> Muslims because of their religion.
> >
> > Of course, sometimes my new harshness on Islam makes me feel like an
> asshole. For more than 25 years  I had  another view on the issue. But I
> can't help it, the situation is serious now.
> >
> > " ' ... Think about it----all it takes is, like, a idle thumb on a space
> bar to turn 'Islam' into 'I slam.''
> > 'Thought-provoking, Shawn.'" (Bleeding Edge, p. 31)
> >
> >
> >> On 01.04.2016 05:51, Joseph Tracy wrote:
> >> I don’t think the slaughter of Muslims has stopped for holidays since
> the US fostered Iraq’s invasion of Iran. The numbers of dead are staggering
> and far out of proportion to what western nations have suffered. The US has
> a religion too,  a religion of imperial greed backed up by the most
> powerful airforce in history. This widespread conflict in the gulf region
> is not a religious war. Religion is just one of the organizing forces and
> it inspires violence for more than muslims. I have a nephew graduating from
> the Airforce Acadamey this year. He is a fundamentalist Christian. He has
> been fantasizing with graphic computer games about killing muslims since he
> was in High School, yet outwardly he is one of the friendliest, most
> respectful and easygoing people I know. 2 years ago I taught a stained
> glass class to some adults, one with a residence and citizenship in Israel
> and 2 with close connections to israel. All three openly advocated the
> killing of all Palestinian
> >> s starting in Gaza. When I peacefully expressed my own thoughts they
> smiled and regarded me as naive. I suppose it is sophisticated to say thes
> things among their friends. One can see the religious roots there too and
> the violent consequences of these ideas.
> >>
> >>  When you say we, I don’t know who you are talking about. My only we is
> those who I join in solidarity: peace activists, environmentalists,
> Quakers, Buddhists, Sufis,native indigenous peoples, people who like to
> talk about books, artists. I am not at war with anyone, I declared my
> independence from foreign wars during Vietnam and while I was pulled toward
> the rhetoric of war in the late 80s, I ended up after some years of
> intellectual struggle resisting and ultimately rejecting it. I understand
> defending one’s town, city, neghborhood or nation but regard all
> non-defensive violence as poison mostly conducted by hired killers which is
> how I regard the US military. It is time to evolve.
> >>   There are millions of peaceful believers in  every populous religion,
> and every culture also produces a small percentage of people poisoned with
> hate and violence. To conflate them is usually a result of some form of
> xenophobia or privilege based on superior force. The wars in Rwanda were
> not religious, and not even truly tribal.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 5:08 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen<
> lorentzen at hotmail.de>  wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> But has "the non Islamic West", these years and decades, ever killed
> Muslims - including Muslim children - on a high Muslim holiday, like Sugar
> Feast or Feast of Sacrifice, just because they were Muslims and not
> Christians?
> >>>
> >>> I don't think so.
> >>>
> >>> Perhaps we all are, if we want it or not, by now involved in a new
> world-war inspired by religion.  It's a very inconvenient perspective, but
> I cannot rule it out.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 31.03.2016 09:44, Joseph Tracy wrote:
> >>>> To me this is completely one-sided. The non Islamic West has
> initiated as much violence as the Islamists. Killing, theft and torture,
> regime change,drones, suicide bombers -It is a cycle not in any way limited
> to Islamists.  Fascism takes many forms and is working powerfully within
> the many factions at play in these wars.
> >>>>> On Mar 29, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen<
> lorentzen at hotmail.de>  wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Maajid Nawaz:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>> ... A jihadist guerrilla war is being waged against world order,
> and the international community is woefully unprepared to address the
> problem.
> >>>>> Many still deny this insurgency exists, and it is true that these
> countries have locally specific factors that contribute to their respective
> insurgent conditions. Yes, the groups behind these attacks are not under
> one central leadership, rather they are either affiliates or offshoots of
> competing jihadist groups.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> But they all share one cause.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> They are all—including ISIS—derived from, or affiliated to just two
> jihadist groupings: al Qaeda and the Taliban. In turn, jihadists all drink
> from the same doctrinal well of widespread, rigid Wahhabism. And they share
> the ideological aims of popular non-terrorist Islamists. They are all
> unified behind a theocratic desire to enforce a version of Sharia as law
> over society. Considering that non-violent Wahhabi and Islamist Muslims
> exist in their millions globally, this drastically increases the potential
> recruitment pool for jihadists. The insurgency could not succeed were this
> not so. There is no use in denying it.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> For many years, liberals—and I speak as one—have refused to
> acknowledge the ideology of Islamism. All talk of “ideas” was seen to be
> nothing but a “neocon” line taken directly from the worst excesses of the
> George W. Bush years.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ironically, due to this very fear of political incorrectness we
> wound up repeating many of the mistakes of the neocon era. While we feared
> to engage in a debate on values with Muslim communities, we tried to
> restrict the problem to the realm of mere criminality, as something to be
> dealt with by law enforcement or, failing a solution there, by the
> military—and ultimately by war, even if that word went unspoken. Under this
> doctrine, President Barack Obama developed a secret kill-list, preferring
> simply to assassinate his enemies, even if they were American citizens, and
> he has dispatching more drone strikes abroad than Bush ever did.
> >>>>> Anything to avoid discussing ideas.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And so, as this global jihadist insurgency became impossible to
> ignore, we liberals reluctantly, euphemistically began naming the problem
> “violent extremism.” We used nauseating, limp State Department-coined
> phrases such as “al-Qaeda-inspired extremism” to refer to what was clearly
> an ideology. But as the assassination of Osama Bin Laden in his Pakistani
> hideout proved, we cannot arrest nor shoot our way out of this problem.
> “Defeating” al Qaeda was only ever going to give rise to a group like ISIS,
> because it was not al Qaeda that had “inspired extremism”; it was extremism
> that had inspired al Qaeda.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Our failure to recognize this as a civilizational struggle—one
> centered around values—has allowed the fundamentalist problem of Wahhabism,
> and the political problem of Islamism, to fester and metastasize. This
> struggle is an ideological one before it is a military or legal one. Vague
> platitudes that this has nothing to do with Islam—my own religion—are as
> unhelpful as saying that this is the essence of Islam. Extremism certainly
> has something to do with Islam. Not nothing, not everything, but something.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Lahore bombing underscores the very religious character of the
> jihadists’ fanaticism. This was not about alienation in a European ghetto,
> or revenge for American and European airstrikes in the Middle East— the
> secular-sounding explanations offered as the motivations of people like
> those who carried out the Paris and Brussels attacks. Lahore was about
> pure, vicious religious intolerance, killing Christians—including Christian
> children—on Easter Sunday because they were Christians and not the kind of
> Muslims the murderers claim to be ... <
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/28/what-the-slaughter-of-christians-in-lahore-says-about-the-global-jihad.html?via=twitter_page
> >>>> -
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> >>> -
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> >> -
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> >
> >
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