(np) What the Slaughter of Christians in Lahore Says About the Global Jihad

Fri Apr 1 14:13:57 CDT 2016

it's all rather depressing but something tells me that the sunni-shia
divide needs to burn itself out like the religious wars in europe between
catholics and protestants did over time.
there's even a schism even within radical sunni community (Isis vs. the
Saudi royal family) that needs resolving as well. whether that after what
one would think will be costly to the Saudis in defeating Isis will change
the mindset of the Wahhabi movement loyal to the Saudi regime in its
diverse support for fomenting radicalism globally is another question.
The US is wasting billions in this fight. it really hasnt accomplished much
and in many cases made things much worse. there seems to be an
unwillingness to question how it spends its trillions on defense and
counter-terror globally. If the Saudis need to change, so does America.
Next to health care, it'll bankrupt the country. I'm not optimistic, not
with the dumbells we have running the show, and a psychopath, a vile
preacher's lame-ass son, and corporate stooge in Clinton waiting in the
wings, well, yeah depressing.

On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 12:22 PM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:

> Kai, what do you suggest, if anything, about dealing with the present
> situation?
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 1, 2016 at 10:17 AM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Damn...
>>
>> Www.innergroovemusic.com
>>
>> > On Apr 1, 2016, at 4:11 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen <
>> lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Those thanatoid Sharia fascists don't give a damn whether you are a
>> "peaceful believer" or not. And while you want "to evolve" - I, no irony,
>> really like that! -, the world caliphate they're going for will be one big
>> regression: The middle Ages with smartphones and AKs. Not a good place for
>> independent women, dopers or homosexuals. The problem by now is worldwide,
>> in no way restricted to the gulf region. And it's not a matter of
>> economics. I like to talk with folks, all kind of folks, about books too,
>> but what are you doing when the only book to talk about is the Koran?
>> >
>> > The (contemporary) military interventions of the West do not kill
>> Muslims because of their religion.
>> >
>> > Of course, sometimes my new harshness on Islam makes me feel like an
>> asshole. For more than 25 years  I had  another view on the issue. But I
>> can't help it, the situation is serious now.
>> >
>> > " ' ... Think about it----all it takes is, like, a idle thumb on a
>> space bar to turn 'Islam' into 'I slam.''
>> > 'Thought-provoking, Shawn.'" (Bleeding Edge, p. 31)
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 01.04.2016 05:51, Joseph Tracy wrote:
>> >> I don’t think the slaughter of Muslims has stopped for holidays since
>> the US fostered Iraq’s invasion of Iran. The numbers of dead are staggering
>> and far out of proportion to what western nations have suffered. The US has
>> a religion too,  a religion of imperial greed backed up by the most
>> powerful airforce in history. This widespread conflict in the gulf region
>> is not a religious war. Religion is just one of the organizing forces and
>> it inspires violence for more than muslims. I have a nephew graduating from
>> the Airforce Acadamey this year. He is a fundamentalist Christian. He has
>> been fantasizing with graphic computer games about killing muslims since he
>> was in High School, yet outwardly he is one of the friendliest, most
>> respectful and easygoing people I know. 2 years ago I taught a stained
>> glass class to some adults, one with a residence and citizenship in Israel
>> and 2 with close connections to israel. All three openly advocated the
>> killing of all Palestinian
>> >> s starting in Gaza. When I peacefully expressed my own thoughts they
>> smiled and regarded me as naive. I suppose it is sophisticated to say thes
>> things among their friends. One can see the religious roots there too and
>> the violent consequences of these ideas.
>> >>
>> >>  When you say we, I don’t know who you are talking about. My only we
>> is those who I join in solidarity: peace activists, environmentalists,
>> Quakers, Buddhists, Sufis,native indigenous peoples, people who like to
>> talk about books, artists. I am not at war with anyone, I declared my
>> independence from foreign wars during Vietnam and while I was pulled toward
>> the rhetoric of war in the late 80s, I ended up after some years of
>> intellectual struggle resisting and ultimately rejecting it. I understand
>> defending one’s town, city, neghborhood or nation but regard all
>> non-defensive violence as poison mostly conducted by hired killers which is
>> how I regard the US military. It is time to evolve.
>> >>   There are millions of peaceful believers in  every populous
>> religion, and every culture also produces a small percentage of people
>> poisoned with hate and violence. To conflate them is usually a result of
>> some form of xenophobia or privilege based on superior force. The wars in
>> Rwanda were not religious, and not even truly tribal.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On Mar 31, 2016, at 5:08 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen<
>> lorentzen at hotmail.de>  wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> But has "the non Islamic West", these years and decades, ever killed
>> Muslims - including Muslim children - on a high Muslim holiday, like Sugar
>> Feast or Feast of Sacrifice, just because they were Muslims and not
>> Christians?
>> >>>
>> >>> I don't think so.
>> >>>
>> >>> Perhaps we all are, if we want it or not, by now involved in a new
>> world-war inspired by religion.  It's a very inconvenient perspective, but
>> I cannot rule it out.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 31.03.2016 09:44, Joseph Tracy wrote:
>> >>>> To me this is completely one-sided. The non Islamic West has
>> initiated as much violence as the Islamists. Killing, theft and torture,
>> regime change,drones, suicide bombers -It is a cycle not in any way limited
>> to Islamists.  Fascism takes many forms and is working powerfully within
>> the many factions at play in these wars.
>> >>>>> On Mar 29, 2016, at 6:27 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen<
>> lorentzen at hotmail.de>  wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Maajid Nawaz:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> ... A jihadist guerrilla war is being waged against world order,
>> and the international community is woefully unprepared to address the
>> problem.
>> >>>>> Many still deny this insurgency exists, and it is true that these
>> countries have locally specific factors that contribute to their respective
>> insurgent conditions. Yes, the groups behind these attacks are not under
>> one central leadership, rather they are either affiliates or offshoots of
>> competing jihadist groups.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> But they all share one cause.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> They are all—including ISIS—derived from, or affiliated to just two
>> jihadist groupings: al Qaeda and the Taliban. In turn, jihadists all drink
>> from the same doctrinal well of widespread, rigid Wahhabism. And they share
>> the ideological aims of popular non-terrorist Islamists. They are all
>> unified behind a theocratic desire to enforce a version of Sharia as law
>> over society. Considering that non-violent Wahhabi and Islamist Muslims
>> exist in their millions globally, this drastically increases the potential
>> recruitment pool for jihadists. The insurgency could not succeed were this
>> not so. There is no use in denying it.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> For many years, liberals—and I speak as one—have refused to
>> acknowledge the ideology of Islamism. All talk of “ideas” was seen to be
>> nothing but a “neocon” line taken directly from the worst excesses of the
>> George W. Bush years.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Ironically, due to this very fear of political incorrectness we
>> wound up repeating many of the mistakes of the neocon era. While we feared
>> to engage in a debate on values with Muslim communities, we tried to
>> restrict the problem to the realm of mere criminality, as something to be
>> dealt with by law enforcement or, failing a solution there, by the
>> military—and ultimately by war, even if that word went unspoken. Under this
>> doctrine, President Barack Obama developed a secret kill-list, preferring
>> simply to assassinate his enemies, even if they were American citizens, and
>> he has dispatching more drone strikes abroad than Bush ever did.
>> >>>>> Anything to avoid discussing ideas.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> And so, as this global jihadist insurgency became impossible to
>> ignore, we liberals reluctantly, euphemistically began naming the problem
>> “violent extremism.” We used nauseating, limp State Department-coined
>> phrases such as “al-Qaeda-inspired extremism” to refer to what was clearly
>> an ideology. But as the assassination of Osama Bin Laden in his Pakistani
>> hideout proved, we cannot arrest nor shoot our way out of this problem.
>> “Defeating” al Qaeda was only ever going to give rise to a group like ISIS,
>> because it was not al Qaeda that had “inspired extremism”; it was extremism
>> that had inspired al Qaeda.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Our failure to recognize this as a civilizational struggle—one
>> centered around values—has allowed the fundamentalist problem of Wahhabism,
>> and the political problem of Islamism, to fester and metastasize. This
>> struggle is an ideological one before it is a military or legal one. Vague
>> platitudes that this has nothing to do with Islam—my own religion—are as
>> unhelpful as saying that this is the essence of Islam. Extremism certainly
>> has something to do with Islam. Not nothing, not everything, but something.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The Lahore bombing underscores the very religious character of the
>> jihadists’ fanaticism. This was not about alienation in a European ghetto,
>> or revenge for American and European airstrikes in the Middle East— the
>> secular-sounding explanations offered as the motivations of people like
>> those who carried out the Paris and Brussels attacks. Lahore was about
>> pure, vicious religious intolerance, killing Christians—including Christian
>> children—on Easter Sunday because they were Christians and not the kind of
>> Muslims the murderers claim to be ... <
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2016/03/28/what-the-slaughter-of-christians-in-lahore-says-about-the-global-jihad.html?via=twitter_page
>> >>>> -
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>> >
>> >
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>
>
>
> --
> www.innergroovemusic.com
>
>
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