GR translation: Maybe not now.

[Mike Jing]

Oh, the Kenosha Kid sequence is definitely one of the most difficult
part of the translation. And due to the difference in sentence
structure between the two languages, some of the word play is simply
impossible to replicate. So something is definitely lost in
translation, but I did the best I could.

Many heartfelt thanks for your lasting support, John, Laura, and all.


On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 5:59 PM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
> I'm with Laura - those two very different meanings for the phrase
> can't be translated into the same sentence in any language, mainly
> because languages aren't codes and the 1:1 translation usually loses
> one of multiple meanings a word may have. That's why you generally
> can't translate a pun. Cripes, I can't imagine how you handled the
> Kenosha Kid sequence Mike!
> And in this instance, the now could easily be read as a Jimmy Stewart
> "oh well now then, fellas..." which is a use of the word that has
> almost nothing to do with the literal meaning of "now".
> Anyway, I love that so little hangs on the resolution to this dilemma!
> As Laura notes, resolving the phrase's meaning (or leaving it
> ambiguous) hardly has any payoff... Don't go changing, P-List.
>
> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:07 AM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com> wrote:
>> All I'm saying is: as long as you don't know without a shadow of a doubt
>> what the author meant YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED as a translator to make
>> something as ambiguous as that less so.
>>
>> And that Mike's questions are a blessing for this list have I said long ago.
>>
>> 2016-12-03 19:26 GMT+01:00 <kelber at mindspring.com>:
>>>
>>> "Perhaps he doesn't feel that way anymore." [now that his wife has been
>>> forcibly given an abortion, he's decided to rejoin the resistance.]
>>>
>>> "This is not a good time to talk about this, Enzian." [Enzian, old
>>> bastard, you really are out of touch.]
>>>
>>> It's easy to imagine that the two interpretations would have very
>>> different translations. DId Pynchon mean for these words to be ambiguous? I
>>> don't see the ambiguity leading to any mind-expanding tangents.
>>> From the context, the first interpretation, as Protoman says, seems the
>>> right one.
>>>
>>> Mike Jing's text-parsing questions are about the best thing happening on
>>> the p-list. Thanks, Mike, and keep 'em coming!
>>>
>>> Laura
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> >From: John Bailey
>>> >Sent: Dec 3, 2016 5:13 AM
>>> >To: Mike Jing
>>> >Cc: Mark Kohut , Pynchon Mailing List
>>> >Subject: Re: GR translation: Maybe not now.
>>> >
>>> >An experiment regarding translation vs interpretation: can anyone on
>>> >the list rephrase *in English* this simple three-word quote without
>>> >reusing any of its terms, and retain the same ambiguity, implications,
>>> >valencies?
>>> >
>>> >On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Mike Jing wrote:
>>> >> That was what I was thinking the first time. Thanks for taking the
>>> >> time to clarify it for me, Mark.
>>> >>
>>> >> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Mark Kohut wrote:
>>> >>> Let me lead by saying I second Protomen's straightforward reading as I
>>> >>> reflect.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> But, in the spirit of Mike asking for readings, 'interpretations' of
>>> >>> what is
>>> >>> in English, as remarked,
>>> >>> perhaps open-endedly ambiguous, I will add one way I have read this
>>> >>> over the
>>> >>> years.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Because of the line that follows, the same paragraph, not what could
>>> >>> easily
>>> >>> have been a different paragraph
>>> >>> since one "rule" of writing is that words spoken 'should' have their
>>> >>> own
>>> >>> paragraph to show that the thought
>>> >>> they express ends, I have often read "Maybe not now" as spoken very
>>> >>> tight-lippedly..."stares him hard as fists"
>>> >>> ..controlled anger as in middle class life one person will 'hiss' to
>>> >>> another, "Not now", meaning we won't talk about that NOW, in this
>>> >>> situation.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Controlled anger that 'says', "you bring that up so innocently? With
>>> >>> that
>>> >>> (stupid) 'Really?' and stupid remark since
>>> >>> you should KNOW now"....
>>> >>>
>>> >>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:42 AM, Mike Jing
>>> >>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> Thanks. That's what I meant the second time.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:19 AM, Protomen wrote:
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > I'd assume the more straightforward:
>>> >>>> > "(the fact that Pavel swore off that) maybe doesn't apply, in the
>>> >>>> > current
>>> >>>> > situation"
>>> >>>> > with the "maybe" a euphemism, hence Enzian feeling out of touch.
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > -------- Original Message --------
>>> >>>> > Subject: GR translation: Maybe not now.
>>> >>>> > Local Time: 1 décembre 2016 6:59 PM
>>> >>>> > UTC Time: 1 décembre 2016 17:59
>>> >>>> > From: gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com
>>> >>>> > To: Pynchon Mailing List
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > V519.9-18, P528.2-11 Pavel and Maria meant to have the child. Then
>>> >>>> > Josef Ombindi and his people started their visiting. They have
>>> >>>> > learned
>>> >>>> > their vulturehood from the Christian missionaries. They keep lists
>>> >>>> > of
>>> >>>> > all the women of childbearing age. Any pregnancy is an invitation
>>> >>>> > to
>>> >>>> > hover, to tune in, to swoop. They will use threats, casuistry,
>>> >>>> > physical seduction—there’s an arsenal of techniques. Washing-blue
>>> >>>> > is
>>> >>>> > the abortifacient of choice.
>>> >>>> > “The refinery,” suggests Andreas Orukambe.
>>> >>>> > “Really? I thought he’d sworn off that.”
>>> >>>> > “Maybe not now.” The girl’s brother stares him hard as fists.
>>> >>>> > Enzian, old bastard, you really are out of touch . . . .
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> > What does Christian mean by “Maybe not now” here? Is he asking
>>> >>>> > Enzian
>>> >>>> > to drop the subject?
>>> >>>> > -
>>> >>>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> >
>>> >>>> -
>>> >>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >> -
>>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>> >-
>>> >Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>
>>> - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>
>>
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l