GR translation: Maybe not now.

[Mike Jing]

David, please.

Apparently, I was still not being clear enough. So please let me put
this as simple as I can: I often ask questions about "interpretation"
or "reading" or whatever, simply because I'm curious and would like to
know what other people think, or because I don't understand the text
and need help. It may or may not affect the translation. But either
way, I don't want you to lose sleep over it.

I didn't want to antagonize you because you have been very helpful,
and I'm forever grateful. But until you can show me that you can do a
better job, please do not tell me how to translate something into
Chinese.

Thank you.

Mike Jing


On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 6:17 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
> You never did the Kenosha Kid.
> Maybe not now.
>
> Maybe: uncertainty, possibility, chance.
> Not:  not.
> Now: now.
>
> The less complex the translation of these three words, the better.  How they
> should be interpreted might be complex (Kenosha), but the words are simple,
> and shouldn't be messed with beyond how they lay in the text.  Let the
> reader decide what they mean.
>
> David Morris
>
>
> On Saturday, December 3, 2016, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm with Laura - those two very different meanings for the phrase
>> can't be translated into the same sentence in any language, mainly
>> because languages aren't codes and the 1:1 translation usually loses
>> one of multiple meanings a word may have. That's why you generally
>> can't translate a pun. Cripes, I can't imagine how you handled the
>> Kenosha Kid sequence Mike!
>> And in this instance, the now could easily be read as a Jimmy Stewart
>> "oh well now then, fellas..." which is a use of the word that has
>> almost nothing to do with the literal meaning of "now".
>> Anyway, I love that so little hangs on the resolution to this dilemma!
>> As Laura notes, resolving the phrase's meaning (or leaving it
>> ambiguous) hardly has any payoff... Don't go changing, P-List.
>>
>> On Sun, Dec 4, 2016 at 6:07 AM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > All I'm saying is: as long as you don't know without a shadow of a doubt
>> > what the author meant YOU ARE NOT AUTHORIZED as a translator to make
>> > something as ambiguous as that less so.
>> >
>> > And that Mike's questions are a blessing for this list have I said long
>> > ago.
>> >
>> > 2016-12-03 19:26 GMT+01:00 <kelber at mindspring.com>:
>> >>
>> >> "Perhaps he doesn't feel that way anymore." [now that his wife has been
>> >> forcibly given an abortion, he's decided to rejoin the resistance.]
>> >>
>> >> "This is not a good time to talk about this, Enzian." [Enzian, old
>> >> bastard, you really are out of touch.]
>> >>
>> >> It's easy to imagine that the two interpretations would have very
>> >> different translations. DId Pynchon mean for these words to be
>> >> ambiguous? I
>> >> don't see the ambiguity leading to any mind-expanding tangents.
>> >> From the context, the first interpretation, as Protoman says, seems the
>> >> right one.
>> >>
>> >> Mike Jing's text-parsing questions are about the best thing happening
>> >> on
>> >> the p-list. Thanks, Mike, and keep 'em coming!
>> >>
>> >> Laura
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >From: John Bailey
>> >> >Sent: Dec 3, 2016 5:13 AM
>> >> >To: Mike Jing
>> >> >Cc: Mark Kohut , Pynchon Mailing List
>> >> >Subject: Re: GR translation: Maybe not now.
>> >> >
>> >> >An experiment regarding translation vs interpretation: can anyone on
>> >> >the list rephrase *in English* this simple three-word quote without
>> >> >reusing any of its terms, and retain the same ambiguity, implications,
>> >> >valencies?
>> >> >
>> >> >On Sat, Dec 3, 2016 at 5:34 PM, Mike Jing wrote:
>> >> >> That was what I was thinking the first time. Thanks for taking the
>> >> >> time to clarify it for me, Mark.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 7:11 AM, Mark Kohut wrote:
>> >> >>> Let me lead by saying I second Protomen's straightforward reading
>> >> >>> as I
>> >> >>> reflect.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> But, in the spirit of Mike asking for readings, 'interpretations'
>> >> >>> of
>> >> >>> what is
>> >> >>> in English, as remarked,
>> >> >>> perhaps open-endedly ambiguous, I will add one way I have read this
>> >> >>> over the
>> >> >>> years.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Because of the line that follows, the same paragraph, not what
>> >> >>> could
>> >> >>> easily
>> >> >>> have been a different paragraph
>> >> >>> since one "rule" of writing is that words spoken 'should' have
>> >> >>> their
>> >> >>> own
>> >> >>> paragraph to show that the thought
>> >> >>> they express ends, I have often read "Maybe not now" as spoken very
>> >> >>> tight-lippedly..."stares him hard as fists"
>> >> >>> ..controlled anger as in middle class life one person will 'hiss'
>> >> >>> to
>> >> >>> another, "Not now", meaning we won't talk about that NOW, in this
>> >> >>> situation.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Controlled anger that 'says', "you bring that up so innocently?
>> >> >>> With
>> >> >>> that
>> >> >>> (stupid) 'Really?' and stupid remark since
>> >> >>> you should KNOW now"....
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:42 AM, Mike Jing
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> Thanks. That's what I meant the second time.
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>>
>> >> >>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:19 AM, Protomen wrote:
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> > I'd assume the more straightforward:
>> >> >>>> > "(the fact that Pavel swore off that) maybe doesn't apply, in
>> >> >>>> > the
>> >> >>>> > current
>> >> >>>> > situation"
>> >> >>>> > with the "maybe" a euphemism, hence Enzian feeling out of touch.
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> > -------- Original Message --------
>> >> >>>> > Subject: GR translation: Maybe not now.
>> >> >>>> > Local Time: 1 décembre 2016 6:59 PM
>> >> >>>> > UTC Time: 1 décembre 2016 17:59
>> >> >>>> > From: gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com
>> >> >>>> > To: Pynchon Mailing List
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> > V519.9-18, P528.2-11 Pavel and Maria meant to have the child.
>> >> >>>> > Then
>> >> >>>> > Josef Ombindi and his people started their visiting. They have
>> >> >>>> > learned
>> >> >>>> > their vulturehood from the Christian missionaries. They keep
>> >> >>>> > lists
>> >> >>>> > of
>> >> >>>> > all the women of childbearing age. Any pregnancy is an
>> >> >>>> > invitation
>> >> >>>> > to
>> >> >>>> > hover, to tune in, to swoop. They will use threats, casuistry,
>> >> >>>> > physical seduction—there’s an arsenal of techniques.
>> >> >>>> > Washing-blue
>> >> >>>> > is
>> >> >>>> > the abortifacient of choice.
>> >> >>>> > “The refinery,” suggests Andreas Orukambe.
>> >> >>>> > “Really? I thought he’d sworn off that.”
>> >> >>>> > “Maybe not now.” The girl’s brother stares him hard as fists.
>> >> >>>> > Enzian, old bastard, you really are out of touch . . . .
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> > What does Christian mean by “Maybe not now” here? Is he asking
>> >> >>>> > Enzian
>> >> >>>> > to drop the subject?
>> >> >>>> > -
>> >> >>>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> >
>> >> >>>> -
>> >> >>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>>
>> >> >> -
>> >> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> >> >-
>> >> >Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >>
>> >> - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> >
>> >
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l