AW: BtZ42 this section

[Thomas Eckhardt]

May never argued in favour of genocide. Quite the opposite. If anything, he erred on the "noble savage" side of things.

----- Ursprüngliche Nachricht -----
Von: "Monte Davis" <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
Gesendet: ‎21.‎06.‎2016 17:15
An: "Mark Kohut" <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
Cc: "rich" <richard.romeo at gmail.com>; "Joseph Tracy" <brook7 at sover.net>; "P-list List" <pynchon-l at waste.org>
Betreff: Re: BtZ42 this section

Gotta love the duplicity of Winnetou as hero along with extermination / displacement / subjugation for his kind.


I'm reminded of The Dying Gaul/ Galatian, one of the best-known and most reproduced statues among both imperial Romans and modern classicists. It was the perfect twofer Look how noble and admirable he is... almost a shame that we defeated him, eh?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_Gaul



On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

He was...it sez right here in wikipedia....AS WERE SO MANY in Germany!...
He was the Dan Brown of the Germany of his time; he was bigger than Rowling's Harry Potter. (I'm guessing)....


Pace Shelley. Poets aren't the unacknowledged legislators of their time; popular novelists were. 


On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:38 AM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com> wrote:

Yep. Bloodlands makes GR feel like a lighthearted romp.


Bringing it back via Crutchfield and Whappo... Snyder writes:


"The East was the Nazi Manifest Destiny. In Hitler's view, 'in the East a similar process will repeat itself a second time as in the conquest of America.'  As Hitler imagined the future, Germany would deal with the Slavs much as the North Americans had dealt with the Indians. The Volga River in Russia, he once proclaimed, will be Germany's Mississippi." 


I wonder if he was a Karl May fan?


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_May



On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:10 AM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:

beyond that I think a bigger problem if you want to call it that for Stalin was collaboration with the Nazis in the occupied territories--if you highlight the murder of jews then you highlight all the non-German accomplices, some of which changed sides wily nily, partly for survival, partly for more cynical reasons. Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus to a lesser extent to this day is only coming to terms; we know how the French feel as it has been a national hovering ghost since the end of the war.


rich





On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com> wrote:

There certainly was some "post-war communist suppression of Jewish deaths" in the USSR, although I'd call it "downplaying" rather than suppression. And that certainly did have roots in (1) homegrown anti-Jewish prejudice in Russia and much of Eastern Europe -- the "pale" and recurring pogroms back to medieval times -- and (2) the USSR's ideological discomfort with any ethnic/cultural identity that might compete with the nominal internationalist "workers of the world," or the de facto dominance of the Russian majority.


But to give the devil his due, you know from Snyder that the Nazis' Generalplan Ost coolly envisioned for *after* their victory the systematic death of >30 million in the USSR, and the deportation farther east of as many or more -- not to mention the ~25 million civilians and soldiers they actually killed in the course of the war.


I have to say that if, as a citizen of the USSR -- or just a Slav -- I'd been part of that target population, the specifically Jewish aspect of the Holocaust would not loom as large or seem as central to Nazi murderousness as it does from the West. 


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
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