BtZ42 this section

[Mark Kohut]

Winnetou III - Winnetou Trilogy Volume Three - Page 336
<https://books.google.com/books?id=6ywkcf1YsfAC&pg=PA336&dq=winnetou+as+hero&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjI5-HatrnNAhXFbB4KHeO2AVwQ6AEILjAD>
<https://books.google.com/books?id=6ywkcf1YsfAC&pg=PA336&dq=winnetou+as+hero&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjI5-HatrnNAhXFbB4KHeO2AVwQ6wEILzAD>
https://books.google.com/books?id=6ywkcf1YsfAC
Preview
<https://books.google.com/books?id=6ywkcf1YsfAC&pg=PA336&dq=winnetou+as+hero&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjI5-HatrnNAhXFbB4KHeO2AVwQuwUIMDAD>
“Yes, you're a hero; I know that, and I can hear it again now, because only
a hero can say such words. We all bemoan that you're not a Kiowa!” He left
and I was considerate enough not to tell him that his lament found no echo
in my unfeeling  ...



On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Gotta love the duplicity of Winnetou as hero along with extermination /
> displacement / subjugation for his kind.
>
           MK: Very Ancient Greek-like too, eh?

>
> I'm reminded of The Dying Gaul/ Galatian, one of the best-known and most
> reproduced statues among both imperial Romans and modern classicists. It
> was the perfect twofer Look how noble and admirable he is... almost a shame
> that we defeated him, eh?
>
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_Gaul
>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> He was...it sez right here in wikipedia....AS WERE SO MANY in Germany!...
>> He was the Dan Brown of the Germany of his time; he was bigger than
>> Rowling's Harry Potter. (I'm guessing)....
>>
>> Pace Shelley. Poets aren't the unacknowledged legislators of their time;
>> popular novelists were.
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:38 AM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Yep. Bloodlands makes GR feel like a lighthearted romp.
>>>
>>> Bringing it back via Crutchfield and Whappo... Snyder writes:
>>>
>>> "The East was the Nazi Manifest Destiny. In Hitler's view, 'in the East
>>> a similar process will repeat itself a second time as in the conquest of
>>> America.'  As Hitler imagined the future, Germany would deal with the Slavs
>>> much as the North Americans had dealt with the Indians. The Volga River in
>>> Russia, he once proclaimed, will be Germany's Mississippi."
>>>
>>> I wonder if he was a Karl May fan?
>>>
>>> <http://goog_402371410>
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_May
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:10 AM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> beyond that I think a bigger problem if you want to call it that for
>>>> Stalin was collaboration with the Nazis in the occupied territories--if you
>>>> highlight the murder of jews then you highlight all the non-German
>>>> accomplices, some of which changed sides wily nily, partly for survival,
>>>> partly for more cynical reasons. Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus to a
>>>> lesser extent to this day is only coming to terms; we know how the French
>>>> feel as it has been a national hovering ghost since the end of the war.
>>>>
>>>> rich
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> There certainly was some "post-war communist suppression of Jewish
>>>>> deaths" in the USSR, although I'd call it "downplaying" rather than
>>>>> suppression. And that certainly did have roots in (1) homegrown anti-Jewish
>>>>> prejudice in Russia and much of Eastern Europe -- the "pale" and recurring
>>>>> pogroms back to medieval times -- and (2) the USSR's ideological discomfort
>>>>> with any ethnic/cultural identity that might compete with the nominal
>>>>> internationalist "workers of the world," or the de facto dominance of the
>>>>> Russian majority.
>>>>>
>>>>> But to give the devil his due, you know from Snyder that the Nazis'
>>>>> Generalplan Ost coolly envisioned for *after* their victory the systematic
>>>>> death of >30 million in the USSR, and the deportation farther east of as
>>>>> many or more -- not to mention the ~25 million civilians and soldiers they
>>>>> actually killed in the course of the war.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have to say that if, as a citizen of the USSR -- or just a Slav --
>>>>> I'd been part of that target population, the specifically Jewish aspect of
>>>>> the Holocaust would not loom as large or seem as central to Nazi
>>>>> murderousness as it does from the West.
>>>>>
>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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