BtZ42 this section

[János Széky]

And don't forget about Winnetou's best friend the German (!) engineer (!)
Old Shatterhand.

2016-06-22 11:07 GMT+02:00 Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>:

> Winnetou III - Winnetou Trilogy Volume Three - Page 336
> <https://books.google.com/books?id=6ywkcf1YsfAC&pg=PA336&dq=winnetou+as+hero&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjI5-HatrnNAhXFbB4KHeO2AVwQ6AEILjAD>
>
> <https://books.google.com/books?id=6ywkcf1YsfAC&pg=PA336&dq=winnetou+as+hero&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjI5-HatrnNAhXFbB4KHeO2AVwQ6wEILzAD>
> https://books.google.com/books?id=6ywkcf1YsfAC
> Preview
> <https://books.google.com/books?id=6ywkcf1YsfAC&pg=PA336&dq=winnetou+as+hero&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjI5-HatrnNAhXFbB4KHeO2AVwQuwUIMDAD>
> “Yes, you're a hero; I know that, and I can hear it again now, because
> only a hero can say such words. We all bemoan that you're not a Kiowa!”
> He left and I was considerate enough not to tell him that his lament found
> no echo in my unfeeling  ...
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 11:14 AM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Gotta love the duplicity of Winnetou as hero along with extermination /
>> displacement / subjugation for his kind.
>>
>            MK: Very Ancient Greek-like too, eh?
>
>>
>> I'm reminded of The Dying Gaul/ Galatian, one of the best-known and most
>> reproduced statues among both imperial Romans and modern classicists. It
>> was the perfect twofer Look how noble and admirable he is... almost a shame
>> that we defeated him, eh?
>>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_Gaul
>>
>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:50 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> He was...it sez right here in wikipedia....AS WERE SO MANY in Germany!...
>>> He was the Dan Brown of the Germany of his time; he was bigger than
>>> Rowling's Harry Potter. (I'm guessing)....
>>>
>>> Pace Shelley. Poets aren't the unacknowledged legislators of their time;
>>> popular novelists were.
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:38 AM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Yep. Bloodlands makes GR feel like a lighthearted romp.
>>>>
>>>> Bringing it back via Crutchfield and Whappo... Snyder writes:
>>>>
>>>> "The East was the Nazi Manifest Destiny. In Hitler's view, 'in the East
>>>> a similar process will repeat itself a second time as in the conquest of
>>>> America.'  As Hitler imagined the future, Germany would deal with the Slavs
>>>> much as the North Americans had dealt with the Indians. The Volga River in
>>>> Russia, he once proclaimed, will be Germany's Mississippi."
>>>>
>>>> I wonder if he was a Karl May fan?
>>>>
>>>> <http://goog_402371410>
>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_May
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jun 21, 2016 at 10:10 AM, rich <richard.romeo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> beyond that I think a bigger problem if you want to call it that for
>>>>> Stalin was collaboration with the Nazis in the occupied territories--if you
>>>>> highlight the murder of jews then you highlight all the non-German
>>>>> accomplices, some of which changed sides wily nily, partly for survival,
>>>>> partly for more cynical reasons. Poland, Ukraine, Lithuania, Belarus to a
>>>>> lesser extent to this day is only coming to terms; we know how the French
>>>>> feel as it has been a national hovering ghost since the end of the war.
>>>>>
>>>>> rich
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Jun 20, 2016 at 12:26 PM, Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> There certainly was some "post-war communist suppression of Jewish
>>>>>> deaths" in the USSR, although I'd call it "downplaying" rather than
>>>>>> suppression. And that certainly did have roots in (1) homegrown anti-Jewish
>>>>>> prejudice in Russia and much of Eastern Europe -- the "pale" and recurring
>>>>>> pogroms back to medieval times -- and (2) the USSR's ideological discomfort
>>>>>> with any ethnic/cultural identity that might compete with the nominal
>>>>>> internationalist "workers of the world," or the de facto dominance of the
>>>>>> Russian majority.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> But to give the devil his due, you know from Snyder that the Nazis'
>>>>>> Generalplan Ost coolly envisioned for *after* their victory the systematic
>>>>>> death of >30 million in the USSR, and the deportation farther east of as
>>>>>> many or more -- not to mention the ~25 million civilians and soldiers they
>>>>>> actually killed in the course of the war.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have to say that if, as a citizen of the USSR -- or just a Slav --
>>>>>> I'd been part of that target population, the specifically Jewish aspect of
>>>>>> the Holocaust would not loom as large or seem as central to Nazi
>>>>>> murderousness as it does from the West.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Generalplan_Ost
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>
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