GR translation: almond fringes

[Mike Jing]

Thanks, Mark.

The "almond" part is still a bit problematic. "Almond eyes" is a
common phrase in Chinese, but I'm not sure how it applies here, if at
all.  Color is certainly a possibility, just not glaringly obvious
enough to me.

On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> By the way, Mike, I shared your 'inability' to see "the glaringly obvious"
> of how his aryan blue eyes
> could overflow his eyelashes........[in one mental hesitation]
>
> which led me to my other glaringly speculative unobvious way to see the
> whites of his eyes
> as the fringes of his eyes....another glaringly obvious accepted meaning of
> fringe, as we know.
>
> But with overtones maybe, I now think Morris's and your judgment is the
> better. (Although, only your decision and correctness matters here)
>
> an outer edge; margin; periphery: on the fringe of the art world. 4.
> something regarded as peripheral, marginal, secondary, or extreme in
> relation to something else: the lunatic fringe of a strong political party.
>
> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 2:10 AM, Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> You mean Gottfried's aryan blue eyes.
>>
>> But anyway, that's mostly irrelevant to the translation. The reason I
>> asked is that if "these almond fringes" are eyelashes, then the
>> sentence would mean that the blue color of his eyes cannot be
>> contained by his eyelashes, which doesn't quite make sense to me. I
>> know his prose is poetic and all, but as always, it still has to make
>> certain literal sense, at least on some level.
>>
>> Meanwhile, our disagreement is probably rather minor. After all,
>> eyelashes do grow on the edge of eyelids, and that's exactly where the
>> border of the eyes is. There is no reason why the "fringes" cannot
>> include the edge of eyelids _and_ the eyelashes.
>>
>> Finally, if you think my questions are beneath you, you are welcome to
>> ignore it. I am grateful for for all your help in the past, but I
>> don't wish to be a burden or nuisance to anyone.
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Jun 29, 2016 at 1:15 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com> wrote:
>> > You really shouldn't be asking me such questions if you think you can
>> > translate GR.  You should already have a sensitivity to his poetic
>> > prose.
>> >
>> > Enzian's aryan blue eyes are too beautiful to be contained within his
>> > eyes,
>> > so they seek the source of their glory, the sky.  It means that his blue
>> > aryan eyes are too beautiful to be contained in his face in Blicero's
>> > loving
>> > observation.  They are like fountains of blue spilling out from his eyes
>> > into the world.
>> >
>> > David Morris
>> >
>> > On Tuesday, June 28, 2016, Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> OK, then what does it mean exactly that the blue of his eyes "is too
>> >> much for these
>> >> almond fringes"?
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 5:31 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > The only part of an eyelid that is an edge is the part lined with
>> >> > lashes.
>> >> > The rest is a covering. Lashes expressly resemble the primary meaning
>> >> > of
>> >> > "fringe," which is a border composed of threads.  This whole thing is
>> >> > so
>> >> > glaringly obvious that I can only conclude that you just want to make
>> >> > it
>> >> > difficult.
>> >> >
>> >> > David Morris
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 4:14 PM, Mike Jing
>> >> > <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> From the OED:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> fringe, n.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 1. a. An ornamental bordering, consisting of a narrow band to which
>> >> >> are attached threads of silk, cotton, etc., either loose or formed
>> >> >> into tassels, twists, etc.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 2. a. Anything resembling this; a border or edging, esp. one that is
>> >> >> broken or serrated.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> And read the sentence again:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> ". . . his eyelids already wrinkling in oddly young/old signatures,
>> >> >> flourishes, the eyes a seldom-encountered blue that on certain days,
>> >> >> in sync with the weather, is too much for these almond fringes and
>> >> >> brims over, seeps, bleeds out to illuminate the boy’s entire face .
>> >> >> .
>> >> >> ."
>> >> >>
>> >> >> It seems to me that "these almond fringes" must be referring to "his
>> >> >> eyelids", which form the border of the eyes, with the eyelashes as
>> >> >> part of it.
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
>> >> >> I could be totally wrong though, but in any case, there is no need
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> get snippy.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Also, not sure if you sent this off-list in error, I'm keeping my
>> >> >> reply private for now.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 8:43 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> > Do you know what fringe is?  How is it that you think eyelids are
>> >> >> > fringe?
>> >> >> > You two deserve each other.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/fringe
>> >> >> > Simple Definition of fringe
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > : a border made of hanging threads used to decorate the edge of
>> >> >> > something
>> >> >> > (such as clothing, rugs, and curtains)
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> > On Tue, Jun 28, 2016 at 12:19 AM, Mike Jing
>> >> >> > <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>
>> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> It seems to me the "almond fringes" are simply his eyelids, which
>> >> >> >> could not contain the blue of his eyes so it "brims over".
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 3:08 PM, Mark Kohut
>> >> >> >> <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> > If he elided 'eyes'.....and the fringes refers to his whites...
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Hey, I'm probably wrong just throwing it out as I do...but
>> >> >> >> > others,
>> >> >> >> > you,
>> >> >> >> > Mike,  will have to judge.
>> >> >> >> > How do you 'prove' an elision? Why even suggest one? I ask
>> >> >> >> > myself.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > Because almond as a color strikes me as.....Off ..from Pynchon,
>> >> >> >> > but
>> >> >> >> > we
>> >> >> >> > know
>> >> >> >> > how I project.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> > On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 2:58 PM, David Morris
>> >> >> >> > <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> > wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> OK, but how are eyes fringe?
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 1:55 PM, Mark Kohut
>> >> >> >> >> <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> http://www.classic-colors.com/ENG/PRODUCTCOLOR/COLOR_Almond
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> almond eyes shape
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> As we've learned, Pynchon sometimes elides...and he often,
>> >> >> >> >>> often
>> >> >> >> >>> packs
>> >> >> >> >>> multiple meanings when he can.
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 2:45 PM, David Morris
>> >> >> >> >>> <fqmorris at gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> The text doesn't say "almond eyes."  It says "almond
>> >> >> >> >>>> fringes,"
>> >> >> >> >>>> which
>> >> >> >> >>>> means blond eyelashes in the context of of his "imponderable
>> >> >> >> >>>> net
>> >> >> >> >>>> of
>> >> >> >> >>>> gold"
>> >> >> >> >>>> leg hair and his "eyes a seldom-encountered blue."
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> David Morris
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>> On Mon, Jun 27, 2016 at 1:27 PM, Mark Kohut
>> >> >> >> >>>> <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> >> >> >> >>>> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>> Almond eyes are narrow and elongated in shape. ... This
>> >> >> >> >>>>> shape
>> >> >> >> >>>>> is
>> >> >> >> >>>>> usually quite large and round (similar to prominent eyes).
>> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>> On Wed, Jun 15, 2016 at 3:12 AM, Mike Jing
>> >> >> >> >>>>> <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> V102.18-26   Gottfried, in the cage, watches her slip her
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> bonds
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> and
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> go. Fair and slender, the hair on his legs only visible in
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> sunlight
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> and then as a fine, imponderable net of gold, his eyelids
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> already
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> wrinkling in oddly young/old signatures, flourishes, the
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> eyes
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> a
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> seldom-encountered blue that on certain days, in sync with
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> the
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> weather, is too much for these almond fringes and brims
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> over,
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> seeps,
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> bleeds out to illuminate the boy’s entire face,
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> virgin-blue,
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> drowned-man blue, blue drawn so insatiably into the chalky
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> walls
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> of
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> Mediterranean streets we quietly cycled through in
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> noontimes
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> of
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> the
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> old peace. . . .
>> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> Does the "almond" in "almond fringes" refer to shape? Or
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> something
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> else?
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> -
>> >> >> >> >>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>>
>> >> >> >> >>>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
>
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l