A point-by-point breakdown of the first half of that book I was telling you about.

[Mark Thibodeau]

Are you reading a physical copy or my text file transcription? Because that
might explain the typos.

J

On Mon, Mar 7, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:

>
> I don't quite follow all of this, maybe because I don't know all of the
> backstory. I'm deep into the book now, and it is fascinating, as gripping
> as any thriller. Not being in the publishing industry, I wanted to ask if
> the reason it's out of print is possibly because it needs a lot of work?
> Lots of typos and maybe some editing, as well. Has the feel of being
> self-published...
>
> On Sun, Mar 6, 2016 at 5:45 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Oglesby
>>
>> Jerky throws us a VERY anarchic curve ball. Looking to refresh myself and
>> learn more
>> about Carl Oglesby, I go to wikipedia. Then it gets interesting.
>>
>> Notice that Kirkpatrick Sale, TRP's old buddy is quoted about Carl's
>> famous anti-
>> war speech in late November 1965. Means he was there. We know TRP later
>> has a letter about not attending another one but one wonders if he was at
>> this one.
>> Close to Sales then, publishing recently in mainstream stuff--SEPost and
>> NYTimes Mag soon after because Sales. And writing and publishing Lot 49.
>>
>> But even more interesting to me. Look at the way Carl's blend of
>> political ideas
>> differs from standard SDS, new Left thinking. (He was to be driven out of
>> a
>> leadership position because he would not track standard Marxist--Leninist
>> Left notions, this sez.) ...Now, a PS first: who else's social critiques
>> as we pick
>> them out in our reading aren't standard Marxist?-- as we've said here.
>> (This is only associative non-logic I know but keep following the
>> bouncing ball).
>>
>> Speculate with me more: as outlined here, Carl's eclectic mix of ideas--
>> might remind of emblematic scenes from Lot 49??...the Young Americans for
>> Freedom,
>> Oedipa's present; libertarianism = cousin of anarchism in that work; the
>> scene
>> about having one's ideas corporatized in Lot 49; Carl's strong
>> anti-bureaucracy strain,--
>> (Heavy in GR, of course) The John Birch Society nod in Lot 49-as nod to
>> freedom.
>> And more.
>>  "in a strong sense, the Old Right
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Right_(United_States)> and the New
>> Left <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left> are morally and
>> politically coordinate":[5]
>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Oglesby#cite_note-5>
>> I suggest there is OLD RIGHT in Lot 49 under political lensing.
>>
>> And remember decades later in the Slow Learner introduction how TRP said
>> the New Left
>> failed to connect with real worker's concerns so failed.
>>
>> Bet they all thought it out together, separately, TRP and Kirkpatrick
>> closest thinking partners
>> then....
>>
>> Why is this book OP?
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Mar 5, 2016 at 6:15 PM, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> <https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-e_-FeN3GSFM/TYp3fVfrrZI/AAAAAAAAAHk/iKNxRJs4rW0/s1600/YankeeCowboyWar.jpg>
>>>
>>>
>>> *KONSPIRACY KLASSICS CORNER!*
>>>
>>> *THE YANKEE AND COWBOY WAR*
>>>
>>> *The Astonishing Link between the JFK Assassination and the deposing of
>>> Nixon *
>>>
>>> *Conspiracies from Dallas to Watergate and Beyond*
>>>
>>> *by Carl Oglesby*
>>>
>>>
>>> A few years back, a friend loaned me his copy of *Carl Oglesby*'s *The
>>> Yankee and Cowboy War*, and after reading it I was stunned that I had
>>> previously neither read it nor even heard about it. I found it both moving
>>> and profoundly impressive. In his masterful dissection of the mid-70's
>>> American political milieu, Oglesby gives us nothing less than an absolutely
>>> convincing operating model of the forces clashing behind the scenes in
>>> post-World War II America, as well as a detailed diagnosis of exactly where
>>> and why things went terribly wrong. He presents valuable ideas that have
>>> found their way into the works of later authors, most notably *Sidney
>>> Blumenthal*, whose 1986 best-seller *The Rise of the
>>> Counter-Establishment* reads almost like a sequel.
>>>
>>>
>>> I believe The Yankee Cowboy War is essential reading for anyone
>>> searching for honest answers about the origins of our current condition.
>>> Unfortunately, the book is long out of print. I also understand that most
>>> of you reading this are busy people who don't have time to read every
>>> worthy book that there is to read. Therefore, I have decided to use this
>>> space to publish my "reading notes", taken during my second reading, so
>>> that interested parties can get the gist of the book's main theses, the
>>> numerous topics it covers, as well as the individuals and events discussed
>>> in it.
>>>
>>>
>>> I will be posting these reading notes periodically over the next few
>>> days. Obviously, this is a poor substitute for reading the book, itself,
>>> but it's a decent primer, and for the researcher in a hurry, it should do
>>> in a pinch. Watch for further installments, coming soon!
>>>
>>>
>>> *PART ONE: THE CLANDESTINE ELITES*
>>>
>>>
>>> · *Watergate* and the *JFK* assassination were not isolated incidents,
>>> but linked parts of a secret war between two American Elites: the
>>> *Yankees* (Eastern Establishment) and the *Cowboys* (Sunbelt, New
>>> Money, Counter-Establishment).
>>>
>>>
>>> · A hidden drama of coup and counter-coup, intrinsically linked
>>> conspiracies, inner oligarchic power sphere, invisible gov’t, above the
>>> law, beyond moral rule… a clandestine American state, embryonic police
>>> state.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>>
>>>
>>> · *Operation Garden Plot*, *COINTELPRO*, *Operation Chaos*.
>>>
>>>
>>> · *CIA* contracting *ITT* to oust *Allende* in Chile is an example of
>>> ruthlessness, just like crimes and cover-up at Dealy Plaza and the
>>> Watergate.
>>>
>>>
>>> · What are the origins of these internal government divisions?
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. CIA intel division vs. CIA operational division.
>>>
>>> 2. Pentagon vs. FBI
>>>
>>> 3. CIA vs. Pentagon
>>>
>>> 4. CIA vs. FBI
>>>
>>> 5. POTUS and all of the above
>>>
>>>
>>> · Destabilization of the post-Reconstruction unity, which, in turn, was
>>> made stronger by *FDR* in the WWII period (post-war consensus). 60’s,
>>> 70’s tumult.
>>>
>>>
>>> · The intensification of clandestine, illicit measures against racial
>>> and anti-war dissent coincided with the use of these methods within the
>>> state as post-war consensus failed.
>>>
>>>
>>> · Dallas/Watergate: breakdown of the incumbent national coalition…
>>> Greater Northeast powers with the greater Southwest powers, the post-Civil
>>> War, post-Reconstruction coalition, the New Deal, the Yankees and Cowboys.
>>>
>>>
>>> · Cold War tensions between two separate and distinct and contradictory
>>> domains of World Historical Truth: Northeast “détente” and Southwest
>>> “militarism”.
>>>
>>>
>>> · In Europe, we could evidently live with communism, whereas in the
>>> Third World, we evidently could not. “Spheres of “détente and violence”… an
>>> untenable paradox.
>>>
>>>
>>> · When it became clear that the USA couldn’t win militarily in the Third
>>> World without risking war in the North Atlantic, consensus dissolved.
>>>
>>>
>>> · Dallas, Nov 22, was an elite power collision, both sensed and real.
>>>
>>>
>>> · Dichotomous Disunity: The Southwest was pro-escalation, on balance,
>>> Frontierist, taking the China-lobby position.
>>>
>>>
>>> · Dichotomous Disunity: The Northeast was pro-pullback, on balance,
>>> Atlanticist, CFR, NATO-conscious position.
>>>
>>>
>>> · YANKEES:
>>>
>>> 1. David Rockefeller
>>>
>>> 2. Ivy League
>>>
>>> 3. Exclusive clubs of Manhattan, Boston and Georgetown
>>>
>>> 4. CFR, Round Table
>>>
>>> 5. Eleanor Roosevelt
>>>
>>> 6. The Dulles Brothers
>>>
>>> 7. Massive Retaliation Doctrine
>>>
>>> 8. The Kennedys
>>>
>>>
>>> · COWBOYS:
>>>
>>> 1. Howard Hughes
>>>
>>> 2. NFL
>>>
>>> 3. Exclusive clubs of New Orleans, Dallas and Orange County (both sides)
>>>
>>> 4. LBJ
>>>
>>> 5. Conally and Hunt
>>>
>>> 6. Bay of Pigs team
>>>
>>> 7. Nixon
>>>
>>>
>>> · The persistence of Civil War splits in the current situation.
>>>
>>>
>>> · *Carroll Quigley* had already talked of these themes before Oglesby
>>> in his *Tragedy and Hope*.
>>>
>>>
>>> · Disintegration of Wall Street influence as the Southwest and Far West
>>> influence increase, commensurate with a dissolving of the Middle Class and
>>> a rise in bourgeoisie.
>>>
>>>
>>> · Northeast Establishment: Semi-aristocratic.
>>>
>>>
>>> · Southwest Counter-Establishment: Petit Bourgeois.
>>>
>>>
>>> · Southwestern money was dependent on government investment: oil,
>>> military, aviation, space, natural resources. This is a paradox.
>>>
>>>
>>> · Oglesby argues that the Atlanticist / Frontierist split is primal, and
>>> that it runs under everything… 1960.
>>>
>>>
>>> · YANKEE:
>>>
>>> 1. Global Scope
>>>
>>> 2. At home in the Great World
>>>
>>> 3. Regards it as a whole, in context
>>>
>>> 4. Good World Order = Relations with allies
>>>
>>> 5. Relations with Western Democracies
>>>
>>> 6. USA seen as a continuation of Europe’s culture
>>>
>>> 7. Europe as key world theater
>>>
>>> 8. Fate of USA linked with Europe
>>>
>>> 9. White cultural destiny transcending boundaries of nation
>>>
>>> 10. The West = One World
>>>
>>> 11. Monopolists who broke faith with the Vietnam project because of the
>>> high probability of failure
>>>
>>> 12. Monopolist East Coast Establishment
>>>
>>>
>>> · COWBOY:
>>>
>>> 1. Ties to Europe NOT obvious
>>>
>>> 2. Old World vs. New World
>>>
>>> 3. Rejects Atlanticism in favor of Frontierism
>>>
>>> 4. Expanding wilderness frontier and “Pacific strategy”
>>>
>>> 5. Cowboy entrepreneurs fought to keep faith alive because of the
>>> necessity of success
>>>
>>> 6. Tycoon (Western)
>>>
>>> 7. They supported *Johnson* and *Nixon* all the way towards a final
>>> military solution
>>>
>>> 8. “Only the strong survive”
>>>
>>>
>>> · What were the roots of the union in the first place? The
>>> frontier which allowed for the continued emergence of  entrepreneurs long
>>> after the establishment of the first monopolies.
>>>
>>>
>>> · Marx never studied states that had so much frontier.
>>>
>>>
>>> · The frontier was a reprieve for democracy… and capitalism! All it took
>>> was genocide.
>>>
>>>
>>> · Energies of expansion took two centuries… finally taking Alaska and
>>> Hawaii. We have no way of knowing how important this expansionism was in
>>> keeping the natural American Cowboy/Yankee divide under control.
>>>
>>>
>>> · The success of various Asian revolutionary movements proved a
>>> perplexing dilemma to the USA. With Asians successfully defending
>>> themselves as self-modernizing, post-colonial entities against American
>>> influence, America had run out of frontier.
>>>
>>>
>>> · To comprehend the assassination of JFK (as with Lincoln) is to
>>> understand a basic event in modern government. It’s a necessity to
>>> understand… an “absolute pre-condition” to self-government, the first step
>>> towards the restoration of a legitimate state.
>>>
>>>
>>> · Today’s frontier is the fact that there is no more frontier.
>>>
>>>
>>> *PART TWO COMING SOON!*
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> www.innergroovemusic.com
>
>
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