"Fun Was Actually Becoming Quite Subversive" (Molly Hite)

[Mark Kohut]

So,  sorry Joseph for too shallow a post.

And, John, thinking about your observations combined with my current
preoccupation with
the poetic 'compression' of allusions, themes and meanings in GR----I mean,
GR is as densely
poetic as The Wasteland and, what? fifty times longer?---the levels of
'reality' vs 'not' and levels
of fantasy vs 'the real' can now be compared to P opening out all such
levels in
AtD, the narrative about Chums within stories interacting with a 'real'
world and later merging
--in the tales-- with other imagined beings who then become 'real' within
the history of the book.



On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 7:44 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> I would agree in general since P makes fun---satirizes to use a 'high' term
> for low fun--but right HERE it seems to me he has made a point of the
> contrast
>
> so that we can see another level of real life fantasies vs dreams and
> fantasies.
>
> But I see your point and glad it is made.
>
> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 7:36 AM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I don't know that there is an opposing of "dreams and fantasies"
>> versus reality within the diegesis of GR. The language of the banana
>> sequence, the mad macro and micro of molecules and bombs and this dude
>> who apparently can be yoked with the fantasies of others... I think
>> the reader is supposed to be knotted into this however they're able to
>> be. I'd argue the sequence isn't about whaling sanctions or double
>> entry accounting but JT's reading isn't too on the nose.
>>
>> On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 10:08 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> > Joseph T writes:
>> > Fun? This is fun of very boyish fantasy materials. Wars start with these
>> > fantasies of conquest, potency, control through killing.
>> >
>> > There is a nice range of ambiguity in possible 'readings' of this scene
>> as
>> > we have been exploring but there are 'readings' which are projective and
>> > absolutely against the ranges within the text.
>> >
>> > Your second sentence is one of them.....esp the line "control thru
>> killing'
>> > which comes from WHERE here?   P explores
>> > the fantasies that feed and create wars but Pirate and crew HERE are NOT
>> > enacting any fantasy---P purposely contrasts Pirate
>> > waking up and creating this breakfast for all with the dream and
>> fantasies.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Mar 31, 2016 at 3:24 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> The gas released from Bananas is  known to make other fruits ripen. The
>> >> chemistry of gases is a major force in German technology of the time,
>> >> chemicals liquid and gaseous, released from coal, fossil fuels long in
>> the
>> >> ripening.  The ( C)Osmos nose is big and smells something big,
>> something
>> >> ripening. The bananas are growing up from the black soil of recycled
>> dead
>> >> organic matter.
>> >>
>> >> Fun? This is fun of very boyish fantasy materials. Wars start with
>> these
>> >> fantasies of conquest, potency, control through killing. War releases a
>> >> powerful ripening, some to spoilage and rot, some to death and
>> recycling,
>> >> some to seek a freedom that can’t be taken away in a moment. People
>> make
>> >> jokes to cope with situations they can’t control, madness they want to
>> >> challenge. Pirate sings goofball guy humor as do the Yanks on the
>> street.
>> >> Lookout primates, other primates and other bananas are falling from
>> above.
>> >> We send them up and by God they come right down.
>> >>
>> >> It is interesting in some weird way that I would call both Cruz and
>> Trump
>> >> adenoidal The sound of their voice like an echo chamber of egotism . Is
>> >> Adenoia anything like Paranoia?
>> >>
>> >> Can’t keep up with the list as i’d like to right now, too many demands
>> on
>> >> my time. But enjoying a quick read-through tonight.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > On Mar 28, 2016, at 1:27 PM, kelber at mindspring.com wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > I don't see much fun in the description of the Banana breakfast - the
>> >> > tone is more of a surreal, desperate attempt to forget what's
>> happening
>> >> > outside. It's not Pynchon who's saying fuck off, but "the high
>> intricacy of
>> >> > the weaving of its [the musaceous odor] molecules.
>> >> >
>> >> > Earlier, on the roof: "Pirate has become famous for his Banana
>> >> > Breakfasts … the politics of bacteria, the soils stringing of rings
>> and
>> >> > chains in nets only God can tell the meshes of, having seen the
>> fruit thrive
>> >> > to lengths of a foot and a half, yes, amazing but true." These are
>> unnatural
>> >> > bananas, grown in the shadow of the power station and the gasworks.
>> >> >
>> >> > Why the references to molecules here? They're the first of many
>> >> > references to organic (i.e. unnatural) chemistry. Similarly, I don't
>> think
>> >> > the Adenoid appears as a random, comic incident. Pynchon isn't going
>> to
>> >> > write about the holocaust directly, but it hovers in the background.
>> At
>> >> > least that's how I read it.
>> >> >
>> >> > LK
>> >> >
>> >> > -----Original Message-----
>> >> > From: Monte Davis
>> >> > Sent: Mar 28, 2016 11:11 AM
>> >> > To: Mark Kohut
>> >> > Cc: Kai Frederik Lorentzen , pynchon -l , kelber
>> >> > Subject: Re: "Fun Was Actually Becoming Quite Subversive" (Molly
>> Hite)
>> >> >
>> >> > "...a wonderful breakfast... the scent alone is enough to ward of[f]
>> >> > death, Pynchon famously says “Fuck Death.” So by indulging in this
>> pleasure,
>> >> > they are able to escape death, they are able to escape the
>> trajectory of
>> >> > human nature even if just for a morning.. maybe by not denying these
>> >> > pleasures we might be able to get out of the arc of human nature..."
>> >> >
>> >> > This is more or less how I read the banana breakfast, too: Bakhtin's
>> >> > carnival, Brueghel's land of Cockaigne, a celebration of excess
>> mocking
>> >> > wartime austerity. Yes, it's anomalous in the novel's larger world:
>> an
>> >> > island or oasis or refuge, just as the rooftop bananery is an
>> artificial
>> >> > enclosure against December chill, just as its bananas are luxuries
>> available
>> >> > only to these officers with connections. Still, "a spell, against
>> falling
>> >> > objects" seems to me as good as it gets in that world.
>> >> >
>> >> > Which is why I respectfully disagree with part of Laura's discussion
>> >> > last week:
>> >> >
>> >> > LK> The musaceous odor. Anyone who's ever taken organic chemistry
>> (did
>> >> > Pynchon? Anyone know?) has probably synthesized banana ester in the
>> lab.
>> >> > it's a standard lab exercise, and it's easy to know if you've got it
>> right,
>> >> > by that musaceous odor ... So even when Pynchon is talking about
>> Nature (in
>> >> > this case, unnaturally growing bananas), he's reminding us how easy
>> it is
>> >> > for science to mimic it, or to tear apart and exploit the delicate
>> >> > molecules.
>> >> >
>> >> > There are certainly many places in GR where industrial organic (and
>> >> > inorganic) chemical technology has an unmistakably evil, negative,
>> >> > anti-human or even "anti-life" context and emotional affect. BUT
>> NOT, I
>> >> > mildly demur, HERE!
>> >> >
>> >> > Pynchon gives us "peculiar alkaloids" in the bananery's
>> long-composted
>> >> > soil... "the politics of bacteria, the soil’s stringing of rings and
>> chains
>> >> > in nets only God can tell the meshes of"... "musaceous odor..."
>> >> > "taking over not so much through any brute pungency or volume as by
>> the
>> >> > high intricacy to the weaving of its molecules"... "genetic chains...
>> >> > labyrinthine enough to preserve some human face down ten or twenty
>> >> > generations"
>> >> >
>> >> > But does he, HERE, say or imply anything about artificial synthesis
>> (as
>> >> > contrasted with life's proliferating variety)? Does he say anything
>> about a
>> >> > "mimicked" smell as distinct from the real smell of real yummy
>> 'nanas? Are
>> >> > there any "delicate" molecules being "torn apart" and "exploited"
>> here --
>> >> > other than as life has routinely, "by its nature" done so 24/7 for a
>> few
>> >> > billion years before IG Farben came along? No.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm fine with Laura writing about her associations, which I believe
>> were
>> >> > brought on by Pynchon's uses (above) of chemical and biological
>> vocabulary
>> >> > and concepts. In fact, I share them: I've made isoamyl acetate and
>> isopentyl
>> >> > acetate, too. But that's quite different from "Pynchon is reminding
>> us" of
>> >> > "science" doing any such thing. In fact, I read those phrases above
>> as
>> >> > integral to the unmistakably positive, celebratory "flavor" of the
>> banana
>> >> > breakfast -- not as a coded warning that exploitive synthetic
>> technology is
>> >> > lurking beneath. The weaving and unweaving of molecules *is*,
>> explicitly, "a
>> >> > charm, against falling objects."
>> >> >
>> >> > Here's a reader I respect and admire, and a stock response that runs
>> >> > through fifty years of Pynchonology: "Everyone knows that Pynchon
>> mistrusts
>> >> > and fears and warns us about science and technology, so wherever
>> their
>> >> > vocabulary and concepts crop up, he's on the attack."
>> >> >
>> >> > This matters to me, as I wrote at length in the exchanges here in
>> June
>> >> > of 2013:
>> https://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l&month=1306&msg=174066 ,
>> >> > etc etc etc...
>> >> >
>> >> > It leads, again and again, to systematic ignoring and misreading of
>> >> > positive, mixed and ambivalent  contexts and associations for P's
>> uses of
>> >> > scientific and technical vocabulary, concepts, and perspectives. Fair
>> >> > warning: I'll be coming back to this throughout the BtZ42, and
>> throughout GR
>> >> > if we continue.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 5:24 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>> >> > wrote:
>> >> > "having evidently the time, in his travels among places of death, to
>> >> > devote to girl-chasing"---p.19 Miller edition
>> >> >
>> >> > I believe Ms. Hite is the one who also said, when encountering the
>> claim
>> >> > that the Whole Sick Crew were 'hysterical' caricatures
>> >> > said: "I knew these people' IRL.
>> >> >
>> >> > On Mon, Mar 28, 2016 at 4:13 AM, Kai Frederik Lorentzen
>> >> > <lorentzen at hotmail.de> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > > Molly Hite’s critical work with Pynchon published in 2004 has the
>> >> > > title “Fun Actually Was Becoming Quite Subversive.” It is an
>> interesting
>> >> > > title, because it originated somewhere completely different than
>> Gravity’s
>> >> > > Rainbow, in fact it came from the 1969 trial of the Chicago Seven,
>> a group
>> >> > > of young men from antiwar and revolutionary groups accused of
>> disrupting the
>> >> > > 1968 Democratic Convention. This was considered a very important
>> trial in
>> >> > > the counterculture movement, something Pynchon famously embraced
>> in his
>> >> > > works. The exact quote originated from the testimony of Abbie
>> Hoffman and
>> >> > > reads “fun was very important… it was a direct rebuttal of the
>> kind of
>> >> > > ethics and morals that were being put forth in the country to keep
>> people
>> >> > > working in a rate race.” Hite uses this to introduce her
>> interpretation of
>> >> > > Pynchon. She argues that “the idea of fun could subvert an
>> oppressive
>> >> > > capitalist structure is central to this novel of excess.”
>> >> >             Molly Hite uses Herbert Marcuse’s 1955 culture synthesis
>> >> > Eros and Civilization: A Philosophical Inquiry into Freud to help
>> frame her
>> >> > argument, and plainly states that this work must have influenced
>> Pynchon.
>> >> > Marcuse claims that the period of time, which this book was written
>> in, was
>> >> > a period of great productivity and excess, and with the technological
>> >> > advances, it became economically feasible to have a “leisure
>> culture.”
>> >> > However with this culture of leisure comes a raising of standards and
>> >> > consequently a “surplus-repression.” This is repression is the
>> repression of
>> >> > Freudian pleasures, conceding or flat out rejecting the
>> gratification of
>> >> > many desires which Freud saw as necessary for a society to organize
>> and
>> >> > survive. Marcuse argues that by denying these pleasures principles
>> that
>> >> > “advanced civilizations are in danger from a second group of
>> instinctive
>> >> > impulses striving for death.” This, Hite states, is where we get the
>> >> > dramatization of the destruction from the rocket, as it becomes
>> global. She
>> >> > argues “The V-2 Rocket rises under human guidance..” and this is
>> where we
>> >> > understand the “death drive.” This is the natural tendency of
>> society, to
>> >> > progress to a certain point, and then fall into the death drive; the
>> arc of
>> >> > human civilization not unlike the arc of the bomb.
>> >> >
>> >> >             Hite states that Pynchon understood Marcuse’s
>> possibility of
>> >> > escape from postindustrial destruction, and encoded it in his book,
>> however
>> >> > slight this chance might be. By not becoming individuals we are
>> doomed to,
>> >> > as individuality in Gravity’s Rainbowis synonymous with disrupting
>> the
>> >> > productivity and subsequent regression of human nature. This is
>> where the
>> >> > overt sexual tones of the book come from, especially the more risqué
>> ones.
>> >> > These sexual acts are done not in hopes of productivity, or
>> reproducing, but
>> >> > simply out of pleasure. By not denying these pleasures and becoming
>> >> > individual of the society, we can escape the trajectory of
>> destruction. Hite
>> >> > does acknowledge that these chances are incredibly small, that
>> betrayal and
>> >> > self-defeating tendencies are built into the system, that “every
>> revolution
>> >> > has been a betrayed revolution.” So for Hite’s interpretation,
>> humanity is
>> >> > at stake, the trajectory is annihilation, and Pynchon offers a way
>> to escape
>> >> > that trajectory.
>> >> >
>> >> >             I would like to agree with Hite in her thinking. In the
>> very
>> >> > beginning of the novel, we are introduced with a very dark image of
>> the
>> >> > concentration camp, with people being ushered into a bleak hotel. At
>> that
>> >> > hotel, they wait quietly for the bomb to drop without any hope left.
>> Right
>> >> > after we get that dark image, we are given one of the most colorful
>> scenes
>> >> > in the novel, the banana breakfast. After a night of indulging in
>> alcohol to
>> >> > excess, Pirate wakes up and picks bananas, something that was
>> rationed
>> >> > during the time period. He then begins to cook a wonderful breakfast
>> >> > consisting of banana everything, and the scent alone is enough to
>> ward of
>> >> > death, Pynchon famously says “Fuck Death.” So by indulging in this
>> pleasure,
>> >> > they are able to escape death, they are able to escape the
>> trajectory of
>> >> > human nature even just for a morning. I believe scenes like this are
>> a clear
>> >> > road map that Pynchon gives us, that maybe by not denying these
>> pleasures we
>> >> > might be able to get out of the arc of human nature, or in Pynchon’s
>> work,
>> >> > the literal bomb. The chances are slim however, these people are
>> protected
>> >> > only as long as the scent of the banana breakfast wafts over them,
>> but the
>> >> > chance does exist.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > Hite, Molly, “‘Fun Was Actually Becoming Quite Subversive’: Herbert
>> >> > Marcuse, the Yippies, and the Value System of Gravity’s Rainbow,”
>> >> > Contemporary Literature 51.4 (Winter 2010): 677-702. <
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> https://englit0500.wordpress.com/2014/04/01/fun-actually-was-actually-becoming-subversive/
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > - Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >>
>> >> -
>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> >
>> >
>>
>
>
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