Traverse Machine

Mon Aug 28 12:52:19 CDT 2017

Oh they really do traverse both books.  I've read that book, too.  Twice,
I'm almost sure.

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 12:02 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:

> One of the major, no, I mean MAJOR themes of VL is women & work & war.
> One way to read the novel is from Prairie's POV. Prairie gets so much
> of her story from film (including her mother's films) and from the
> Tube.  Frenesi is also deeply impacted by both, and as her parents are
> film folk it's worth paying close attention to the films she
> influenced by and associated with, not a few of them deal with women
> and work and war. In any event, so check out VL page 75. Frenesi here
> is getting a history lesson from her mother. The history is Her-Story
> and how she came down 101, down from the redwoods where her father,
> Jess Traverse was an organizer of loggers.
>
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Seymour Landnau
> <seymourlandnau at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Is the Traverse clan in Vineland?  I'll have to check that.  I know they
> > traverse the aTd.  Traversing the Author's books too, hey?  Like the
> Chums
> > do in a way.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:10 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> There is the family tree for starters:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> http://against-the-day.pynchonwiki.com/wiki/index.
> php?title=Traverse_Family_Tree
> >>
> >> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> >> > Interesting thesis but I would like to see a sketch of supporting
> story
> >> > lines/evidence in VL.  I see it as a more political, social control
> /vs
> >> > resistance novel focusing on consolidation of power within
> increasingly
> >> > aggressive gov/police alliance and various forms of reistance
> including
> >> > labor but in many ways it is about a more full spectrum resistance:
> free
> >> > thought, self liberation using psychedelics/cannabis, war resistance,
> labor
> >> > resistance, feminism, race, music, turning off tv, making local
> communities.
> >> > I have a hard time recalling a particular emphasis on labor. I
> remember the
> >> > part about the labor issues for loggers and that some of the film
> >> > collective’s actions were at labor protests. Am I missing something
> obvious?
> >> >    One thing implicit in VL is the variety of ways in which a movement
> >> > is intimidated, seduced, scattered, killed by the state, while the
> state
> >> > maintains the facade of legitimate concern for law and order. In
> Pynchon’s
> >> > 1984 big brother is experty heroized on TV by taxpaying advertisers,
> and
> >> > mostly only shows up with an arrest warrant when you are connected to
> direct
> >> > resistance.
> >> >
> >> > I agree with your premise of labor power decline and certainly we see
> >> > HOW that was accomplished in VL.  Interesting focus which just came
> up in
> >> > discussion with friends. Nobody talks about labor much anymore. I
> would
> >> > argue that the Clinton administration put the final nail in that
> coffin. The
> >> > democrats relation to their base is more memory and habit than
> >> > representative commitment.
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >> On Aug 25, 2017, at 11:37 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >> Vineland picks up where GR left off.
> >> >>
> >> >> GR is, in part, about labors relationship with the giant
> conglomerates
> >> >> of the 1970s, with post-WWII America.
> >> >>
> >> >> Vineland explores the decline, and even the collapse of the stable
> >> >> and steady giant conglomerates: GE, G&W, ITT, RCA, AT&T, IBM....as
> >> >> they face the challenges of competition, as increasing returns from
> >> >> size suddenly become bloated complacency.
> >> >>
> >> >> The garage geeks take big risks, and while most fail, a few are
> enough
> >> >> to make a major impact: Apple, Microsoft.
> >> >>
> >> >> Jobs at the Big Olds decline and jobs are created at smaller
> companies.
> >> >>
> >> >> The BIGS turn lean and mean, spin off, LBO, M&A....VC and so on and
> >> >> labor has no chance.
> >> >>
> >> >> VL & Nostalgia has been much discussed and VL is certainly a novel in
> >> >> the tradition of American labor literature that honors 4 bread and
> >> >> butter ideas that we find in American Lit.
> >> >>
> >> >> 1. division of labor argues that those that do dangerous work get
> >> >> higher wages.
> >> >> 2.work that requires more skill, skill that is acquired not in
> months
> >> >> but in years, get higher wages.
> >> >> 3. work that is irregular, because of weather, for example,  steel
> >> >> worker in Boston, get higher wages
> >> >> 4. Pride / Trust in work requires higher wages
> >> >>
> >> >> Zoyd is a parody of the lost wages.
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 7:55 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>> In Robert Reich's first movie, he had a few charts. One was of
> >> >>> the growth of GDP in America since WW2...
> >> >>> charted with the growth of
> >> >>> median income in Americas since WW2.......
> >> >>> And a chart of union membership in America over that time.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I was in about 1977 that the growth of GDP slowly but noticeably
> >> >>> started to
> >> >>> outpace the growth of median income, which flattened over time.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> It was at about that time that the fast decline of union membership
> >> >>> started.
> >> >>> (If I remember it was leaking away even earlier in the decade.)
> Reich
> >> >>> pointed out how non-union wage growth also slowed. Union monetary
> >> >>> achievements helped all workers.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> I am working with a retired economist--one who was part of the
> >> >>> leadership in
> >> >>> founding
> >> >>> the radical economists group of the 60s, early 70s. I am bringing
> his
> >> >>> best
> >> >>> book, The Money Mandarins
> >> >>> back into print with him, revised, updated, but the bulk of the
> >> >>> analysis is
> >> >>> the same since real predictive insight can be like that.
> >> >>> He basically predicted all of the adverse effects of globalization
> on
> >> >>> workers.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> When I told him the above examples from Reich's film, he told me
> this,
> >> >>> still
> >> >>> baffled and self-surprised at it.He said that around that time, in
> his
> >> >>> prime, he poured through scads of data--to see economic
> >> >>> trends, anomalies, truths....this was worldwide but he was working
> in
> >> >>> Europe, unlike many American economists
> >> >>> so.......
> >> >>>
> >> >>> This became unexplainably evident to him.....slowed growth and even
> a
> >> >>> visible decline in economic value of wages WORLDWIDE (even as many
> of
> >> >>> the
> >> >>> most poor in major countries--China, India, for example---forged
> >> >>> forward, as
> >> >>> has steadily happened)
> >> >>> which, according to classical head-in-ass econ theory, will always
> >> >>> balance
> >> >>> with new "creatively destructive" growth of
> >> >>> new occupations...
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 7:36 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
> >> >>> wrote:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> There’s also the fact that many traditional jobs are no longer very
> >> >>>> well paid. The 1980s recession, timed with the beginning of the
> >> >>>> Reagan
> >> >>>> years, was the beginning of a progressive destruction of unions in
> an
> >> >>>> industry which had at a time been the centre of the most militant
> >> >>>> labor struggles in the history of the American west. In 1978, a
> >> >>>> forestry worker with no high-school diploma could earn up to 40%
> more
> >> >>>> than the state’s average wage. Now, fellers can earn as little as
> $18
> >> >>>> an hour.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/23/logging-
> industry-work-employment-oregon
> >> >>>> -
> >> >>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >> -
> >> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list
> >> >
> >> > -
> >> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >> -
> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >
> >
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://waste.org/pipermail/pynchon-l/attachments/20170828/c4e00a72/attachment.html>