Traverse Machine

Mon Aug 28 22:22:44 CDT 2017

Ok. I remember that and that Frenesi wouldn’t cross a picket line because of her upbringing. I still don’t remember anything about the decline and collapse of GE, RCA etc. Labor is a significant theme but perhaps not as central in my reading as you make it. The thing is that  economics and politics and criminal rackets and police and class issues and TV thanatoids are mashed together in such a way, both in reality and in P’s version of 1984, that it is hard to identify any center or pivot point.( It seems to me that in the real world, and this is something P has made central through all his work, that Corporate management is as dependent on political muscle  as the politicians are on big money) Is Orwell’s 1984 itself about class, about freedom, about the infrastucture of a police state, a world without privacy? 

It seems to me that Pynchon is pointing to a resistance that does have a "which side are you on” quality, but seems to me to show a world where resistance must go beyond wage and work conditions to issues of artistic liberty, freedom of thought, police accountability to legal codes, freedom to grow and use herbs,( to some this probably seems trivial but criminalizing such a harmless activity feeds misery and violence ) ,  and who does the legal system and communication system and education system serve?  Still, the more I consider it the more I see that you have  a valid way of looking at the book. It is also a support for your argument that Frenesi, having found Vond’s sadistic fascism too odious to abide, and now married to a low level agent, finds they are facing the same  financial and labor abuses in the agency as her union forbears faced.

Labor struggles do seem a valid lens for understanding this part of history, particularly the shift of resistance from labor to student and academic revolt against Vietnam, racial/gender/class injustice. The tactics were confrontational in the same way as labor history, but by then unions were mostly in a more comfortable class and  often felt as threatened by the  students as those in the management class. Also the unions had done a lot of capitulating to anti-communism in the McCarthy era and many voted for Nixon and Reagan.  

In short, I concede. Not entirely, but mostly.

> On Aug 28, 2017, at 1:02 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> One of the major, no, I mean MAJOR themes of VL is women & work & war.
> One way to read the novel is from Prairie's POV. Prairie gets so much
> of her story from film (including her mother's films) and from the
> Tube.  Frenesi is also deeply impacted by both, and as her parents are
> film folk it's worth paying close attention to the films she
> influenced by and associated with, not a few of them deal with women
> and work and war. In any event, so check out VL page 75. Frenesi here
> is getting a history lesson from her mother. The history is Her-Story
> and how she came down 101, down from the redwoods where her father,
> Jess Traverse was an organizer of loggers.
> 
> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 11:16 AM, Seymour Landnau
> <seymourlandnau at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Is the Traverse clan in Vineland?  I'll have to check that.  I know they
>> traverse the aTd.  Traversing the Author's books too, hey?  Like the Chums
>> do in a way.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 3:10 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> There is the family tree for starters:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> http://against-the-day.pynchonwiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Traverse_Family_Tree
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Aug 26, 2017 at 9:53 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>>>> Interesting thesis but I would like to see a sketch of supporting story
>>>> lines/evidence in VL.  I see it as a more political, social control /vs
>>>> resistance novel focusing on consolidation of power within increasingly
>>>> aggressive gov/police alliance and various forms of reistance including
>>>> labor but in many ways it is about a more full spectrum resistance: free
>>>> thought, self liberation using psychedelics/cannabis, war resistance, labor
>>>> resistance, feminism, race, music, turning off tv, making local communities.
>>>> I have a hard time recalling a particular emphasis on labor. I remember the
>>>> part about the labor issues for loggers and that some of the film
>>>> collective’s actions were at labor protests. Am I missing something obvious?
>>>>   One thing implicit in VL is the variety of ways in which a movement
>>>> is intimidated, seduced, scattered, killed by the state, while the state
>>>> maintains the facade of legitimate concern for law and order. In Pynchon’s
>>>> 1984 big brother is experty heroized on TV by taxpaying advertisers, and
>>>> mostly only shows up with an arrest warrant when you are connected to direct
>>>> resistance.
>>>> 
>>>> I agree with your premise of labor power decline and certainly we see
>>>> HOW that was accomplished in VL.  Interesting focus which just came up in
>>>> discussion with friends. Nobody talks about labor much anymore. I would
>>>> argue that the Clinton administration put the final nail in that coffin. The
>>>> democrats relation to their base is more memory and habit than
>>>> representative commitment.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Aug 25, 2017, at 11:37 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Vineland picks up where GR left off.
>>>>> 
>>>>> GR is, in part, about labors relationship with the giant conglomerates
>>>>> of the 1970s, with post-WWII America.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Vineland explores the decline, and even the collapse of the stable
>>>>> and steady giant conglomerates: GE, G&W, ITT, RCA, AT&T, IBM....as
>>>>> they face the challenges of competition, as increasing returns from
>>>>> size suddenly become bloated complacency.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The garage geeks take big risks, and while most fail, a few are enough
>>>>> to make a major impact: Apple, Microsoft.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Jobs at the Big Olds decline and jobs are created at smaller companies.
>>>>> 
>>>>> The BIGS turn lean and mean, spin off, LBO, M&A....VC and so on and
>>>>> labor has no chance.
>>>>> 
>>>>> VL & Nostalgia has been much discussed and VL is certainly a novel in
>>>>> the tradition of American labor literature that honors 4 bread and
>>>>> butter ideas that we find in American Lit.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 1. division of labor argues that those that do dangerous work get
>>>>> higher wages.
>>>>> 2.work that requires more skill, skill that is acquired not in months
>>>>> but in years, get higher wages.
>>>>> 3. work that is irregular, because of weather, for example,  steel
>>>>> worker in Boston, get higher wages
>>>>> 4. Pride / Trust in work requires higher wages
>>>>> 
>>>>> Zoyd is a parody of the lost wages.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Fri, Aug 25, 2017 at 7:55 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> In Robert Reich's first movie, he had a few charts. One was of
>>>>>> the growth of GDP in America since WW2...
>>>>>> charted with the growth of
>>>>>> median income in Americas since WW2.......
>>>>>> And a chart of union membership in America over that time.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I was in about 1977 that the growth of GDP slowly but noticeably
>>>>>> started to
>>>>>> outpace the growth of median income, which flattened over time.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> It was at about that time that the fast decline of union membership
>>>>>> started.
>>>>>> (If I remember it was leaking away even earlier in the decade.) Reich
>>>>>> pointed out how non-union wage growth also slowed. Union monetary
>>>>>> achievements helped all workers.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I am working with a retired economist--one who was part of the
>>>>>> leadership in
>>>>>> founding
>>>>>> the radical economists group of the 60s, early 70s. I am bringing his
>>>>>> best
>>>>>> book, The Money Mandarins
>>>>>> back into print with him, revised, updated, but the bulk of the
>>>>>> analysis is
>>>>>> the same since real predictive insight can be like that.
>>>>>> He basically predicted all of the adverse effects of globalization on
>>>>>> workers.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> When I told him the above examples from Reich's film, he told me this,
>>>>>> still
>>>>>> baffled and self-surprised at it.He said that around that time, in his
>>>>>> prime, he poured through scads of data--to see economic
>>>>>> trends, anomalies, truths....this was worldwide but he was working in
>>>>>> Europe, unlike many American economists
>>>>>> so.......
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> This became unexplainably evident to him.....slowed growth and even a
>>>>>> visible decline in economic value of wages WORLDWIDE (even as many of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> most poor in major countries--China, India, for example---forged
>>>>>> forward, as
>>>>>> has steadily happened)
>>>>>> which, according to classical head-in-ass econ theory, will always
>>>>>> balance
>>>>>> with new "creatively destructive" growth of
>>>>>> new occupations...
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 24, 2017 at 7:36 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There’s also the fact that many traditional jobs are no longer very
>>>>>>> well paid. The 1980s recession, timed with the beginning of the
>>>>>>> Reagan
>>>>>>> years, was the beginning of a progressive destruction of unions in an
>>>>>>> industry which had at a time been the centre of the most militant
>>>>>>> labor struggles in the history of the American west. In 1978, a
>>>>>>> forestry worker with no high-school diploma could earn up to 40% more
>>>>>>> than the state’s average wage. Now, fellers can earn as little as $18
>>>>>>> an hour.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/aug/23/logging-industry-work-employment-oregon
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>> 
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>>> -
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>> 
>> 
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