Was Pynchon influenced by Leary, R.A. Wilson?

[Mark Thibodeau]

For the record, I think RAWilson and TRPynchon would have gotten along
famously, and I am not prepared to posit that such a meeting of the
minds never occurred, either. Wilson did edit Playboy during its
fiction-publishing heyday, after all.

Jerky

On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> Strong dfferences always welcome, thanks for clearing up your intentions.
>
>> On Aug 28, 2017, at 2:19 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I did not mean to display anger, so I apologize if I did--was....
>>
>> I saw it as a rhetorical device to display some firm differences...(since I've been agreeing with you a lot lately.)
>>
>> Smile (or you don't have to.
>>
>> yeah, I don't know how to use wtf. I think it is just like asking a hard question but it is saying "what the fuck", not a pleasant phrase.
>>
>> Yes, I did speak offensively and I do apologize and will learn better for next time, I hope.......
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>> I was not really asserting anything, just seeing potential cross fertilization and asking what others thought. No need for anger.  I agree as does Wilson that Pynchon is one of the great artists of our time and simply in a different class as a writer, but he is also eclectic and omnivorous in his reading.
>>   Leary’s impact on the culture was far greater than Wilson, and while I was in the past put off by his personality, I find his writing and ideas are more measured and intelligently provocative than he was given credit for. He was interested in the evolution of consciousness and was in the middle of a cultural revolution that held great promise. We need such a revolution again and I think that is what drew my interest to these writers that I overlooked at the time. I was more influenced at the time by Huxley, Bucky Fuller, Alan Watts and Marshall Mcluhan so it is interesting to see how powerful was their influence on Leary and Wison. Both Wilson and Leary cite many scientists, journalists, and other writers so the references are as interesting to me as Wilson or Leary’s ideas.
>>   As to whether P smoked pot or took psychedelics I don’t think I am alone in thinking pot for sure and entheogens probably. He certainly understood the role they played in a way that suggests first hand experience. But that is not proof.
>>
>> > On Aug 28, 2017, at 4:52 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> > Your " clearly" can't even be proven from what we know and, of course, what most want to believe. And as if his habit of making "cross-disciplinary connections"--wtf is THAT in him besides metaphors-making genius, praised from Aristotle on as the highest kind of " intelligence".
>> >
>> > All of the annotating and criticism exploring P's creative sources and jackshit re these guys.
>> > He is too smart for all of them. Which is one reason THEY admire him.
>> >
>> > Wtf is that list in your post, from " music scale" to "control"? Seems to me like a"junior-grade Pynchon" list satirizing literary criticism.
>> >
>> > "Junior-grade Pynchon" per that commenter means it is effectively a joke, bad Pynchon parody.  Or else like Shakespeare retold for kids.
>> >
>> > A--and, I think you've got the dark web in BE about as wrong--although again his ambiguous depth of symbolic use is not easily summarized--as can be.
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >
>> >> On Aug 28, 2017, at 12:33 AM, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> People often consider Wilson and Shea's The Illuminatus Trilogy to be
>> >> junior-grade Pynchon, as in the link below, where one commenter
>> >> describes it as "Gravity's Rainbow with training wheels".
>> >>
>> >> http://www.librarything.com/topic/32913
>> >>
>> >>> On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 11:18 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>> >>> I have been reading Robert Anton Wilson’s Cosmic Trigger( 1 and 3) and am now starting into some Leary writing, which I found one of the more interesting parts of the Trigger books. Leary was more scientific than he is credited with, though clearly was left in the lurch by the outlawing of the intriguing chemistry brain interaction  which is one of the most fascinating in nature’s pharmacy and deserves open scientific, therapeutic and artistic inquiry.
>> >>>
>> >>> Clearly P experimented with the same substances and has the same habit of making cross disciplinary connections as Leary and Wilson: music scale, male female electro chemistry, poetry as code, alchemy, tarot, communication accross time, psychology-science-political power games-control vs. freedom. Both use humor in powerful ways, and Wilson read and admired P and Joyce enormously. The main philosophic difference seems to be along the lines of pessimism/ optimism for the human condition. Leary/Wison see the potential to break non-functional conditioning whereas P sees those habits as more pervasive and operating on dangerous feedback loops. For P redemption/liberation/clarity is rare and individual with little impact on the macrocosm. On the other hand, there is an arc of movement toward optimism since GR.
>> >>>
>> >>> At the end of bleeding edge we are dropped off in a dangerous world made worse by the police state approach to IT , but with a nodding invitation of a departure into the  Deep web as an outpost of free exchange, ghosts and new games. The internet and virtual reality were intriguing frontiers to Leary/Wilson also.
>> >>>
>> >>> Any thoughts on a Leary, Pynchon, Wilson connection
>> >>>
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>> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
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>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
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>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list
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>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
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