Was Pynchon influenced by Leary, R.A. Wilson?

[Mark Thibodeau]

I like to think that Pynchon and I would get along, also, seeing as I
would be willing to furnish him many groupies willing to indulge his
butthole pleasures.

Or something. I dunno. It's too early to try being funny.

YOPJerky

On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 9:49 AM, Seymour Landnau
<seymourlandnau at gmail.com> wrote:
> Pynchon would fucking adore me.  And I don't even read Playboy.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Aug 29, 2017 at 7:38 AM, Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>>
>> For the record, I think RAWilson and TRPynchon would have gotten along
>> famously, and I am not prepared to posit that such a meeting of the
>> minds never occurred, either. Wilson did edit Playboy during its
>> fiction-publishing heyday, after all.
>>
>> Jerky
>>
>> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 2:27 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>> > Strong dfferences always welcome, thanks for clearing up your
>> > intentions.
>> >
>> >> On Aug 28, 2017, at 2:19 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> I did not mean to display anger, so I apologize if I did--was....
>> >>
>> >> I saw it as a rhetorical device to display some firm
>> >> differences...(since I've been agreeing with you a lot lately.)
>> >>
>> >> Smile (or you don't have to.
>> >>
>> >> yeah, I don't know how to use wtf. I think it is just like asking a
>> >> hard question but it is saying "what the fuck", not a pleasant phrase.
>> >>
>> >> Yes, I did speak offensively and I do apologize and will learn better
>> >> for next time, I hope.......
>> >>
>> >> On Mon, Aug 28, 2017 at 1:25 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
>> >> I was not really asserting anything, just seeing potential cross
>> >> fertilization and asking what others thought. No need for anger.  I agree as
>> >> does Wilson that Pynchon is one of the great artists of our time and simply
>> >> in a different class as a writer, but he is also eclectic and omnivorous in
>> >> his reading.
>> >>   Leary’s impact on the culture was far greater than Wilson, and while
>> >> I was in the past put off by his personality, I find his writing and ideas
>> >> are more measured and intelligently provocative than he was given credit
>> >> for. He was interested in the evolution of consciousness and was in the
>> >> middle of a cultural revolution that held great promise. We need such a
>> >> revolution again and I think that is what drew my interest to these writers
>> >> that I overlooked at the time. I was more influenced at the time by Huxley,
>> >> Bucky Fuller, Alan Watts and Marshall Mcluhan so it is interesting to see
>> >> how powerful was their influence on Leary and Wison. Both Wilson and Leary
>> >> cite many scientists, journalists, and other writers so the references are
>> >> as interesting to me as Wilson or Leary’s ideas.
>> >>   As to whether P smoked pot or took psychedelics I don’t think I am
>> >> alone in thinking pot for sure and entheogens probably. He certainly
>> >> understood the role they played in a way that suggests first hand
>> >> experience. But that is not proof.
>> >>
>> >> > On Aug 28, 2017, at 4:52 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> > Your " clearly" can't even be proven from what we know and, of
>> >> > course, what most want to believe. And as if his habit of making
>> >> > "cross-disciplinary connections"--wtf is THAT in him besides
>> >> > metaphors-making genius, praised from Aristotle on as the highest kind of "
>> >> > intelligence".
>> >> >
>> >> > All of the annotating and criticism exploring P's creative sources
>> >> > and jackshit re these guys.
>> >> > He is too smart for all of them. Which is one reason THEY admire him.
>> >> >
>> >> > Wtf is that list in your post, from " music scale" to "control"?
>> >> > Seems to me like a"junior-grade Pynchon" list satirizing literary criticism.
>> >> >
>> >> > "Junior-grade Pynchon" per that commenter means it is effectively a
>> >> > joke, bad Pynchon parody.  Or else like Shakespeare retold for kids.
>> >> >
>> >> > A--and, I think you've got the dark web in BE about as
>> >> > wrong--although again his ambiguous depth of symbolic use is not easily
>> >> > summarized--as can be.
>> >> >
>> >> > Sent from my iPad
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Aug 28, 2017, at 12:33 AM, Mark Thibodeau
>> >> >> <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >> >>
>> >> >> People often consider Wilson and Shea's The Illuminatus Trilogy to
>> >> >> be
>> >> >> junior-grade Pynchon, as in the link below, where one commenter
>> >> >> describes it as "Gravity's Rainbow with training wheels".
>> >> >>
>> >> >> http://www.librarything.com/topic/32913
>> >> >>
>> >> >>> On Sun, Aug 27, 2017 at 11:18 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net>
>> >> >>> wrote:
>> >> >>> I have been reading Robert Anton Wilson’s Cosmic Trigger( 1 and 3)
>> >> >>> and am now starting into some Leary writing, which I found one of the more
>> >> >>> interesting parts of the Trigger books. Leary was more scientific than he is
>> >> >>> credited with, though clearly was left in the lurch by the outlawing of the
>> >> >>> intriguing chemistry brain interaction  which is one of the most fascinating
>> >> >>> in nature’s pharmacy and deserves open scientific, therapeutic and artistic
>> >> >>> inquiry.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Clearly P experimented with the same substances and has the same
>> >> >>> habit of making cross disciplinary connections as Leary and Wilson: music
>> >> >>> scale, male female electro chemistry, poetry as code, alchemy, tarot,
>> >> >>> communication accross time, psychology-science-political power games-control
>> >> >>> vs. freedom. Both use humor in powerful ways, and Wilson read and admired P
>> >> >>> and Joyce enormously. The main philosophic difference seems to be along the
>> >> >>> lines of pessimism/ optimism for the human condition. Leary/Wison see the
>> >> >>> potential to break non-functional conditioning whereas P sees those habits
>> >> >>> as more pervasive and operating on dangerous feedback loops. For P
>> >> >>> redemption/liberation/clarity is rare and individual with little impact on
>> >> >>> the macrocosm. On the other hand, there is an arc of movement toward
>> >> >>> optimism since GR.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> At the end of bleeding edge we are dropped off in a dangerous world
>> >> >>> made worse by the police state approach to IT , but with a nodding
>> >> >>> invitation of a departure into the  Deep web as an outpost of free exchange,
>> >> >>> ghosts and new games. The internet and virtual reality were intriguing
>> >> >>> frontiers to Leary/Wilson also.
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> Any thoughts on a Leary, Pynchon, Wilson connection
>> >> >>>
>> >> >>> -
>> >> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> >> >> -
>> >> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>> >> > -
>> >> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list
>> >>
>> >> -
>> >> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>> > -
>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
>
-
Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l