Pynchon's censored file aesthetic

Thu Aug 31 18:38:49 CDT 2017

You mean the sense that I’m not “getting it” isn’t just me missing the references? Feeling better already.

> On Aug 31, 2017, at 6:55 PM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> No matter how many times you read these passages, it feels like there's something you're missing.  Maybe you are supposed to not be privy. Strange trick for an author to pull. But who's to say.
> 
> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 5:24 PM, jesse gooch <jlguuch at gmail.com <mailto:jlguuch at gmail.com>> wrote:
> Really interesting take on it. I like the idea that there has been…interference or something, between what was said and what we actually receive. Cool notion Kid.
> 
> > On Aug 31, 2017, at 5:11 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com <mailto:ishmailian at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > Oh yeah, Kid, I hear you now. The Godzilla! example helped me
> > understand what you are getting at. Very cool, Kid. Cool Beans!
> >
> > Keep it up Kid and you might be teaching a film class in Pynchon any day now.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 4:49 PM, da kid <peterock86 at live.com <mailto:peterock86 at live.com>> wrote:
> >> Oh I know what I was thinking of: overdubbed voices! Like ... Godzilla! I
> >> got the same impression during some of the rocket parts like when Slothrop
> >> is talking to Katie about the rocket and she looks at him with pity or like
> >> she knows something he doesn't. I don't remember the scene exactly and don't
> >> have a copy with me but it's at the casino Hermann Goering. I was thinking
> >> Slothrop possibly could have said something else more personal but the
> >> readers "hear" the dubbed voice. I don't know if he was going for anything
> >> like this- I doubt it. But I liked the idea that passages of Gravity's
> >> Rainbow had been bleeped out and dubbed over. Like a confidential CIA file
> >> if they not only marked over words with a black marker but added new words
> >> on top.
> >> ________________________________
> >> From: owner-pynchon-l at waste.org <mailto:owner-pynchon-l at waste.org> <owner-pynchon-l at waste.org <mailto:owner-pynchon-l at waste.org>> on behalf of
> >> Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at gmail.com <mailto:mackin.paul at gmail.com>>
> >> Sent: Thursday, August 31, 2017 3:16:50 PM
> >> To: ish mailian; pynchon -l
> >> Subject: Re: Pynchon's censored file aesthetic
> >>
> >> TP's choices in naming things and people are so right they can cause you to
> >> quiver.
> >>
> >> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:30 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com <mailto:ishmailian at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> The Rocket and the Whale: A Critical Study of Pynchon’s Use of Melville
> >>> Author:Levitsky, Zhana
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 1:29 PM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com <mailto:ishmailian at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>> The Whiteness of visitations from Above, from Below, and later the
> >>>> White Finality and the whiteness of the rocket/whale....our postmodern
> >>>> friends used to call this symbolic use over-determined and our
> >>>> mathematical friends might call it an overdetermined system.
> >>>>
> >>>> The death and life and grace configurations are infinite at least.
> >>>>
> >>>> God's Grace can do wonders.
> >>>>
> >>>> In Catholicism, it is held that the purpose of this visit was to bring
> >>>> divine grace to both Elizabeth and her unborn child. Even though he
> >>>> was still in his mother's womb, John became aware of the presence of
> >>>> Christ, and leapt for joy as he was cleansed from original sin and
> >>>> filled with divine grace. Elizabeth also responded and recognised the
> >>>> presence of Jesus, and thus Mary exercised her function as
> >>>> mediatrixbetween God and man for the first time.[1]
> >>>>
> >>>> 1.  Holweck, Frederick. Visitation of the Blessed Virgin Mary. The
> >>>> Catholic Encyclopedia. Vol. 15. New York: Robert Appleton Company,
> >>>> 1912. 11 Oct. 2013
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 12:06 PM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at gmail.com <mailto:mackin.paul at gmail.com>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Correction: Looking it up, I find "visitation" in Catholic parlance
> >>>>> refers
> >>>>> to Mary's visit to her cousin Elizabeth, mother to be of John the
> >>>>> Baptist.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 11:35 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com <mailto:mark.kohut at gmail.com>>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> YES!....
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 11:30 AM, Paul Mackin <mackin.paul at gmail.com <mailto:mackin.paul at gmail.com>>
> >>>>>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> "White Visitation" a code name, always appearing in double quotes,
> >>>>>>> stands
> >>>>>>> for something secretive, namely  this inter-governmental long-named
> >>>>>>> organization whose purpose is supposed be to try out any outlandish
> >>>>>>> scheme
> >>>>>>> anyone can think of that might possible contribute to winning the
> >>>>>>> war.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> The name itself sounds plausibly like a Catholic hospital or convent.
> >>>>>>> Angel Gabriel appearing to the BVM.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> On Thu, Aug 31, 2017 at 10:32 AM, Atticus Pinecone
> >>>>>>> <atticuspinecone at gmail.com <mailto:atticuspinecone at gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Like a symbol?
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> As for technique, is it far fetched to think he used Burroughs's cut
> >>>>>>>> up
> >>>>>>>> style? They have similarly snarled syntax.
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> On Aug 30, 2017, at 8:55 PM, da kid <peterock86 at live.com <mailto:peterock86 at live.com>> wrote:
> >>>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>>> Ok so I made a pretentious title for this post which is pretty
> >>>>>>>>> much
> >>>>>>>>> just a random idea/question. When I was reading Gravity's Rainbow
> >>>>>>>>> I got the
> >>>>>>>>> feeling that some of his proper names particularly The White
> >>>>>>>>> Visitation were
> >>>>>>>>> like, the possible term escapes me, words inserted after the true
> >>>>>>>>> name had
> >>>>>>>>> been erased. Like if you are listening to a recording of someone
> >>>>>>>>> talk and he
> >>>>>>>>> keeps mention someone but when he says that name a computer voice
> >>>>>>>>> chimes in.
> >>>>>>>>> God this is the worst attempt at explanation. But anyways I was
> >>>>>>>>> wondering if
> >>>>>>>>> maybe this idea could connect to Pynchon's "layering" technique of
> >>>>>>>>> writing.
> >>>>>>>>> Any thought?
> >>>>>>>> -
> >>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l <http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>> -
> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l <http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l>
> >>
> >>
> > -
> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l <http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l>
> 
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l <http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l>
> 

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