NP - Cat Person

Tue Dec 12 04:37:43 CST 2017

And then this stupidity below. Aristotle: "after intercourse every animal
feels sad", he thought he observed. Which is at least true for some humans
some of the time, after full consensual participatory sex......
This woman writing below wants more than sensitive consensual sex......
And that, although worthy, is irrelevant here.

"After Weinstein, after #MeToo, it’s imperative we examine the minutiae of
sexual encounters, because it’s the only way we’ll redefine positive and
participatory sex, where consent is enthusiastic and fluid between
partners, and no one feels bad afterwards."

On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 5:18 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:

> I disagree with this so violently i'm scared of myself.    First, as I
> wrote, 'men's responses are sociological not from a sound judgment of the
> story's meanings. ..."men have seldom experienced"????--how would she even
> know, given her binary gender solipsism?  1) Can we not empathize 2) Can we
> not experience it too---did not the guy in the story 'experience' it
> too?.....which is one fine thing about that story......WHO is standing on
> the outside confounded? And if they are her straw men mean little to the
> judgment of most sound readers.
>
> "It’s interesting but not entirely surprising that so few champions of
> Roupenian’s story are men. What women are reading as relatable in the story
> – a scenario where sex happens although it is not entirely desired – men
> have seldom experienced.
> Nikki Haley: women who accuse Trump of sexual misconduct 'should be heard'
>
> Read more
>
> <https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2017/dec/10/nikki-haley-donald-trump-accusers-should-be-heard>
>
> In fact, the intense response to Roupenian’s story seems to mimic the
> overwhelming #MeToo movement, though on a much smaller scale. Here we have
> women joining a chorus of voices relaying similar (but hidden) experiences,
> while men stand on the outside, confounded, looking in at what they have
> wrought."
>
> On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 11:48 PM, Mundo M <mundom333 at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/dec/12/feelin
>> g-powerless-to-stop-a-sexual-encounter-cat-person-is-
>> familiar-to-many-women
>>
>> 2017-12-11 23:02 GMT-05:00 Becky Lindroos <bekah0176 at sbcglobal.net>:
>>
>>> Thanks for calling attention to the story,  Mark.     I rather enjoyed
>>> it and agree with Laura’s comments -  it’s spot-on but I must add that it’s
>>> spot on from the point of view of probably most women who have dated much
>>> since high school.   The author is getting inside the head of an immature
>>> young college girl who is messing with a lonely old man  (old to her).
>>>
>>> I’m sure that the same story as written by Jonathan Franzen and from
>>> Robert’s point of view would be quite different.  "What is with this girl
>>> who invites herself over to my house…”   and so on.   Robert would be suave
>>> and gentle and all good things and she would be a weird tease or something.
>>>
>>>  And John Bailey,  "- the protagonist's isn't the authorial view, for
>>> instance, and the moral ambiguities of the piece aren't necessarily a
>>> fault.”    Yup -  lol  (I can’t help the lol  - I’m a girl.)
>>>
>>>
>>> Becky
>>> https://beckylindroos.wordpress.com
>>>
>>> > On Dec 11, 2017, at 1:01 PM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> > It's made a lot of men (and some women) very angry. It's a short story
>>> > that's gone viral (the first?) and so opinions are many.
>>> > As Mark mentioned the other weird thing is that some people are
>>> > calling it an 'article' or 'essay' rather than fiction, and responding
>>> > as such. Which is bizarre in itself, but also makes discussing it
>>> > harder because there's a few Eng Lit 101 things that are skipped over
>>> > - the protagonist's isn't the authorial view, for instance, and the
>>> > moral ambiguities of the piece aren't necessarily a fault.
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Dec 12, 2017 at 6:46 AM, Laura Kelber <laurakelber at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >> A very astute, well-written, dead-on accurate rendering of thoughts
>>> and
>>> >> feelings that most women who've dated have experienced, more or less.
>>> But
>>> >> that very accuracy renders it less memorable. I gather that men
>>> experience
>>> >> this story in a different way?
>>> >>
>>> >> Laura
>>> >>
>>> >> On Mon, Dec 11, 2017 at 6:53 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Reminds --in immediate diverse responses, including the
>>> will-never-die
>>> >>> confusion of fiction with non-fiction by many readers--of Shirley
>>> >>> Jackson's
>>> >>> New Yorker story, The Lottery.
>>> >>>
>>> >>> John is so right about it being some kind of cultural symbol as well
>>> >>> as a short story. I love 'is shit...
>>> >>>
>>> >>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> On Dec 11, 2017, at 3:07 AM, John Bailey <sundayjb at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>> If you've heard anything about this New Yorker short story (or if
>>> you
>>> >>>> haven't) it's worth reading now before you develop too many
>>> >>>> preconceptions. I've never seen a piece of fiction trend on Twitter,
>>> >>>> inspire memes, and turn social media into a place for passionate
>>> >>>> literary debate from both pro- and anti- camps. I certainly
>>> >>>> flip-flopped many times while reading it myself, but I think it's
>>> very
>>> >>>> helpful to go in without knowing what to expect. You'll hear people
>>> >>>> talking about it soon.
>>> >>>> https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2017/12/11/cat-person
>>> >>>> -
>>> >>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>> >>> -
>>> >>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> > -
>>> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
>>>
>>> -
>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>>
>>
>>
>
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: <http://waste.org/pipermail/pynchon-l/attachments/20171212/00c8aeb5/attachment.html>