Asymmetrical Polarization

Mon Dec 18 01:59:28 CST 2017

Stop attacking journalism - you guys are playing right into the hands of
the new regime. I mean really. "...mainstream american journalism is
complicit in much more mass murder than any good they may have done." What?
Dude, stop using in the AM.

As Robert said - nonsense.

By the way I live in the Basque country where more than one jounralist has
been threatened or targeted for publishing what was unacceptable to some;
it is better now here, but Russia is extremely dangerous for anyone trying
to practice journalism.

NB - I aint hiding behind some nik. Get that, Attic Pinenut?

Oh and before you try to label me as deluded or complicit do some serious
soul searching.

ciao
mc

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 3:57 AM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> I agree that mainstream american journalism is complicit in much more mass
> murder than any good they may have done.
> There has also  always been good journalism. And sometimes it gets printed
> in the NY Times.
>
> Going back to the question of both-siderism I do think both David and
> Robert are saying valid things. But for me the entire debate is suspect for
> the simple fact that it is mostly limited to 2 sides, where the real issues
> are multifaceted, and possble approaches to problems range much further
> than “liberal” vs. “conservative”. This framing is itself dishonest.
>   A program I find particularly vapid because of this meaningless framing
> is All Things Considered. On any issue they tend to report a mediocre
> politicized evaluation from a dem politician and rep politician  or a
> liberal and conservative think tank. They do not try to compare this with
> their investigation of actual facts or ask challenging questions, nor do
> they bring in strong non partisan voices. In the end a congressmen who
> knows very little or a general with financial interests will get more time
> than someone who has written  a book on the subject.This does more to make
> people feel informed  than to actually inform them and probably mostly
> leaves listeners with whatever partisan leanings they began with.
> > On Dec 15, 2017, at 8:54 AM, Atticus Pinecone <atticuspinecone at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > I'm dead serious.
> >
> > The bad far outweighs the good. You all—I hope—recall which wars and
> military actions began with lies. Lies in the exact media I "must not be
> following". And I know you have a vague, if not good, idea of the civilian
> death counts—so I'm really asking, what's one example of journalism that
> offsets one million dead civilians?
> >
> > 100,000? One thousand? 43?
> >
> > I sense that people don't like having their heads yanked out of the sand.
> >
> > And I'm not saying there aren't any—but I sense the books don't come
> close to balancing.
> >
> > So with that framing, I hope you don't still think my question is a
> waste.
> >
> > On Dec 15, 2017, at 5:31 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> >> You know the problems with answering your question Atticus? Some on
> this list will start denying any real examples by org associationism--
> >> the new Left McCarthyites.
> >>
> >>  If you don't already know SOME answers, then you
> >> must not be following anywhere where one can get such examples.
> >>
> >> So, although there is a suspicion re your pseudonym and a suggestion
> >> that you are more shit-stirrer--I used to know the Yiddish---than
> interested, if you genuinely want some answers, write me offlist. Morris
> >> and lots of others who know answers don't need to waste their time. Nor
> I mine, unless.....
> >>
> >> If you don't already know some investigative reporting that
> >> has brought down generals, won a Senate race, revealed the Stuxnet
> attack, reported on intelligence secrecies and actions
> >> up until one court decision away from a long prison sentence, brought
> us Romney's 47% tape and, of course, all the being-proven truths about
> >> the Russian attacks on the US election, then ....
> >>
> >> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 4:51 PM, Atticus Pinecone <
> atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> I don't doubt it. Just asking for examples...
> >>
> >> On Dec 14, 2017, at 4:37 PM, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>> That's nonsense. There's a lot of good journalism out there.
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 12:34 PM, Atticus Pinecone <
> atticuspinecone at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> America & American journalism have relatively short & interwoven
> histories... What are the positive journalism examples? We can all name
> absolutely catastrophic negative ones...
> >>>
> >>> Almost seems like the way NYC & Boston are built on landfill...
> America is built on lies & slander...
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 14, 2017, at 3:17 PM, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> The centrism of Bothsiderism ultimately comes not from an interest in
> truth, or any other ideology, but in a desire to not offend people so as to
> keep selling ads. If right-wingers move right, so does the center. It's
> relative positioning. But a lot of journalists see it as a profound
> philosophical commitment essential to journalism.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 11:53 AM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> I mostly agree with you take.  But the "centrist voices" of
> Bothsiderism has nothing to do with actual centrism (like truthiness has no
> relation to truth).  There are such things as facts.  As the Right becomes
> ever more extreme, the "center" is no longer near any rational center
> (asymmetry).  Norms of discourse and behavior are obliterated by the Right
> as they embrace all manner of evil.  This has been our ever-increasing
> political reality for decades.  Trump has pushed it so far that it can no
> longer be ignored, and that's a good thing, I think...
> >>>>
> >>>> David Morris
> >>>>
> >>>>    Virus-free. www.avg.com
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Dec 14, 2017 at 1:28 PM, Robert Mahnke <rpmahnke at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> Bothsiderism is a result of previous media environments where the
> fixed costs of running a local newspaper or TV station are high and there
> are network effects (e.g., people want to advertise where the viewers are),
> so for business reasons it made sense for outlets to adopt centrist voices
> that don't offend anyone, letting them sell more advertisements. You can
> call this whoredom if you want, but it's the function of letting the market
> function. It makes less sense now because the internet makes it so much
> cheaper to publish, and that has led to a proliferation of outlets
> (although not as much in local news, which still has substantial fixed
> costs of newsgathering that deters entry). FOX News has made a lot of money
> by focusing on right-wing viewers, and leaving everyone else to other
> outlets. Google and Facebook have made far more money by giving people a
> way to find what they want to hear, unfortunately in news as well as a lot
> of other things. If only someone could figure out a way to make money in
> the pursuit of truth.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Wed, Dec 13, 2017 at 5:26 PM, David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>>> https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2014/06/yes-
> polarization-is-asymmetric-and-conservatives-are-worse/373044/
> >>>>
> >>>> 1.  Bothsiderism is a result of media whoredom.  Ratings over truth
> (and morality).
> >>>>
> >>>> 2.  Republicans are the real problem, on many levels.  Trump has
> pushed this reality to the forefront of everyone's consciousness, except
> for the Walking Dead.  We should thank him for that.
> >>>>
> >>>> David Morris
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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