Too bad, so sad.

[Mark Kohut]

nope, I also particularized the fact of anti-truths and other untruths--but
not lies and
I know you are full of trying to save my grandchildren....

as am I....by continued learning and attempted clarity...and pragmatic
political action.

that is why I wrote 'sad'...

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 12:47 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:

> No your post is wrong. So there, how is that for an argument? Because that
> is the shit you come up with every time.
> I am actually trying to keep you and your children from the very real
> asheap of a burning planet. Wake up dude.
> > On Dec 18, 2017, at 12:33 PM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Your post is wrong, anti-proven truth in many particulars, right in some
> history that is not
> > what we are talking about....
> >
> > and wrong some more.....
> >
> > let's see if Jerky bothers to tackle your "Russiagate crap" remark...
> >
> > ash heap of history is where most of your judgments will end up. as I
> wrote,  sad....
> >
> > Evil American truths are still and will always be evil America truths.
> You just don't know how to generalize about them; see much
> > of what is in front of you geopolitically now....unable to overcome your
> own shards of ideology...
> >
> > imho.
> >
> > On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 12:22 PM, Joseph Tracy <brook7 at sover.net> wrote:
> > Your notion that the crimes of journalists against the truth and the
> constitution can be reduced to Judy Miler is laughable. That is only one of
> many  examples of egregious and murderous lies.  I have been watching this
> shit go down since the Vietnam war.
> >
> > Also Matthew I never said anything against journalism as truth telling
> or accurate reporting or questioning and exposing the lies of Governments
> and politicians. And I certainly understand the dangers faced by
> journalists who tell the truth in other countries as well as the US. Many
> crimes against journalists are happening in countries we support like
> Egypt, Turkey, Kenya and Saudi Arabia.  This persecution happened as
> abundantly under Obama as now.
> >
> > What Mark T and I are talking about is the scale of killing produced by
> politicians and journalists who peddle hate and lies rather than balanced
> reporting. The US has a history that caused Martin Luther King to describe
> it as "the greatest purveyor of violence in the world today.” I believe
> that still holds true. Journalism that acts as a brain dead megaphone for
> war has contributed a great deal to that reality and deserves
> accountability.
> >
> > The arguments excusing this mass killing and the press that endorsed and
> heroized it makes me sick.  I will never back down from this. I do not
> believe any of the crap that devalues  the human lives of those who live in
> Libya, Vietnam, Iraq, Syria, Yemen, Chile, ………or the whole sickeng too long
> list of Americas postWW2 imperial wars and coups. Some of you want an
> America and a Democratic party that never existed. No reform is possible
> without admitting that it is needed.
> >
> >  I am not in any way endorsing Trump’s war on truth. But I am not ready
> to forgive all the coverage given to him by the mainstream press and that
> now strings the public along with this Russiagate crap with no evidence.
> >
> > > On Dec 18, 2017, at 5:21 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > > Maybe Joseph is, as I just sent regarding Thomas...
> > > ." a critical mass" is pretty tough to measure for even 'the newspaper
> of record' and all the other media which it influences.
> > > and when Judith Miller's sources--her supposed bedmate Chalabi---lied
> and deceived, as did she---and lost her career over it, too little too
> late, we can now, smart critical thinkers that we are, blame the whole
> NYTimes, "mainstream media',whatever that is, now throw in the Wa Po and
> many others because one very major story in the 'newspaper of record' was
> because it--all the editors and publishers---were being played, well, not
> too smart in my judgment.
> > >
> > > And as I just said to Thomas, would that administration NOT have gone
> to war anyway?
> > >
> > > Some, say Barack Obama, saw through the evil of an impending Iraq war.
> Many others too, esp all over media that I bet plisters followed. In fact,
> I bet most plisters
> > > were opposed, whaddya think? So now they can displace their anger on
> the NYT and other 'mainstream media'? Okay.
> > >
> > > Here's my attempt at an aphorism of the day: When you can find out
> that stories in double-sourced (at least) independently-verified stories in
> media papers and
> > > other vehicles are wrong---you know you have a way of measuring truth.
> > >
> > > and a simple social observation about a word: Have you all noticed how
> the word 'lie' has come often to be used, even by many over trivial things,
> to mean a mistake,
> > > a wrongness, a nonfact, a non-truth independent of an actual willed
> intention?
> > >
> > > Later,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 5:01 AM, Mark Thibodeau <
> jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com> wrote:
> > > I imagine Joseph might be referring to the role played by such august
> journals as the New York Times in getting a critical mass of the American
> population to switch from opposing to supporting the US invasion of Iraq in
> 2003, a folly which has led to the unnecessary, superfluous deaths of
> upwards of a million innocent souls so far, and counting.
> > >
> > > I don't, however, blame "mainstream American journalism" any more than
> I do the populace that allowed itself to be persuaded. And of course, much
> less than the actual criminals at the top, many of whom knew that the
> rationale they proffered for their businessman's war* of first resort was
> nothing but a tissue of lies, because they knew that if they revealed their
> REAL reasons for the invasion (which, to be exceedingly fair, I'm sure they
> thought were good reasons), the American people wouldn't be so gung-ho for
> bloodshed.
> > >
> > > J
> > >
> > > On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 3:55 AM, Mark Kohut <mark.kohut at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > Joseph T:
> > > "I agree that mainstream american journalism is complicit in much more
> mass murder than any good they may have done."
> > >
> > > A remark so ignorant, even, maybe, so inherently vile in even
> pretending this makes measurable sense about valid journalism, that one
> shudders for the polity from the other side.
> > >
> > > So it goes.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > -
> > Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
> >
>
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
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