NP - Donnie does the Tu Quoque shuffle

[Keith Davis]

Has anyone else read Orlov's new book, Shrinking the Technosphere? I've just started it, but it ties into this discussion and I'd be interested on others' takes on it.

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> On Feb 6, 2017, at 5:49 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Trump said he still respects Putin as a leader of Russia and implied
> that leaders sometimes kill and that the US leaders also kill.
> President Trump now has blood on his hands. He has ordered killings
> and he is responsible for the murders of innocent people, including
> children.
> 
> What's more frightening is that Trump's argument is that leaders have
> to engage in murder. It goes with the territory.
> 
> Of course, all the US  leaders accept this idea. They kill, squash
> dissent at home and abroad, fund and arm killers, of journalists,
> children....but Trump admits it on National TV.
> 
> And they call him a liar?
> 
> Why won't he lie about the killings?
> 
> People are up in arms about the ban on Muslims, but they seem
> perfectly fine with the bombings of Muslims. How do they square that?
> How does your good liberal, progressive, Democrat square the Obama and
> Clinton killings? By claiming that the Bushes killed more? That the
> Bushes were only after oil and revenge?
> 
> East Aleppo? West Aleppo? Is this the debate we should be having?
> 
> It seems we've come to accept that killing is necessary. That war must be waged.
> 
> Is war necessary?
> Is it inevitable?
> Why is it so seductive, and at the same time, so hard to look at?
> 
> The fake photos and films, do they somehow permit us to rationalize
> the real murders, the killings, the wars, the everlasting god
> almighty, filthy dirty money driven fucking wars?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 4:28 AM, matthew cissell <mccissell at gmail.com> wrote:
>> Howdy Y'all,
>> 
>>    Been a lot of talk on the list and elsewhere about journalism, Syria,
>> fake news and the russian hackers & CIA, and oh so much more. Many have
>> said: "Oh so you think the US is free of sin?" Now we see The Chump doing
>> that rag. Love that Whataboutism.
>> 
>> Do we need to rehearse and recount the sins and crimes of the land of the
>> Free? Doesn't hurt. We could start with the colonies and work our way up to
>> Wounded KNee, Ludlow and more. Sure of course we will mention Operation
>> Condor, Paperclip and more. Agent Orange and Guantanamo will get their place
>> in the recital of shame.
>> 
>>  But let me ask you: do you think that that painful and terrible list is a
>> proper rebuttle? Do you really think that US support (first on part of the
>> government and then later by too many people) of regime change and more
>> prohibits the US from complaint? Why can't we recognize the fallacy behind
>> that logic? Would we say that the members who sit on the International Court
>> of Justice can't hear cases against warlords or dictators given their own
>> countries' past crimes?
>> 
>> The judge who has blocked Chump's order offers a point of comparison; do you
>> think something similar could happen in Russia? I think the folks who engage
>> in the Tu Quoque argument should not just spend some time in Russia but also
>> go talk to the Chechens. However, for a cheap primer you could watch the PBS
>> documentary "Return of the Czar" - before you get any ideas, it posits how
>> the US in the '90's could be said to be guilty for the rise of Putin.
>> Another item to add to the list of shame.
>> 
>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhStxLABfMs
>> 
>> No, Donnie, the US is not so innocent. And niether am I. But I still know
>> how to discern a brute from someone who has behaved brutishly, a killer from
>> someone who has killed. If you can't then we may be in for big trouble.
>> 
>> ciao
>> mc otis
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