NP - Donnie does the Tu Quoque shuffle

[Joseph Tracy]

Totally with you
Just on a practical level war is  failing completely to bring the proposed  improvements and seems more likely to inspire than prevent acts of terror.
I can understand for example Kurds defending their own towns and even the US helping what is a clear defensive posture of people who live in a region and are being attacked.  



> On Feb 6, 2017, at 8:56 AM, Keith Davis <kbob42 at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Has anyone else read Orlov's new book, Shrinking the Technosphere? I've just started it, but it ties into this discussion and I'd be interested on others' takes on it.
> 
> Www.innergroovemusic.com
> 
>> On Feb 6, 2017, at 5:49 AM, ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Trump said he still respects Putin as a leader of Russia and implied
>> that leaders sometimes kill and that the US leaders also kill.
>> President Trump now has blood on his hands. He has ordered killings
>> and he is responsible for the murders of innocent people, including
>> children.
>> 
>> What's more frightening is that Trump's argument is that leaders have
>> to engage in murder. It goes with the territory.
>> 
>> Of course, all the US  leaders accept this idea. They kill, squash
>> dissent at home and abroad, fund and arm killers, of journalists,
>> children....but Trump admits it on National TV.
>> 
>> And they call him a liar?
>> 
>> Why won't he lie about the killings?
>> 
>> People are up in arms about the ban on Muslims, but they seem
>> perfectly fine with the bombings of Muslims. How do they square that?
>> How does your good liberal, progressive, Democrat square the Obama and
>> Clinton killings? By claiming that the Bushes killed more? That the
>> Bushes were only after oil and revenge?
>> 
>> East Aleppo? West Aleppo? Is this the debate we should be having?
>> 
>> It seems we've come to accept that killing is necessary. That war must be waged.
>> 
>> Is war necessary?
>> Is it inevitable?
>> Why is it so seductive, and at the same time, so hard to look at?
>> 
>> The fake photos and films, do they somehow permit us to rationalize
>> the real murders, the killings, the wars, the everlasting god
>> almighty, filthy dirty money driven fucking wars?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Mon, Feb 6, 2017 at 4:28 AM, matthew cissell <mccissell at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Howdy Y'all,
>>> 
>>>   Been a lot of talk on the list and elsewhere about journalism, Syria,
>>> fake news and the russian hackers & CIA, and oh so much more. Many have
>>> said: "Oh so you think the US is free of sin?" Now we see The Chump doing
>>> that rag. Love that Whataboutism.
>>> 
>>> Do we need to rehearse and recount the sins and crimes of the land of the
>>> Free? Doesn't hurt. We could start with the colonies and work our way up to
>>> Wounded KNee, Ludlow and more. Sure of course we will mention Operation
>>> Condor, Paperclip and more. Agent Orange and Guantanamo will get their place
>>> in the recital of shame.
>>> 
>>> But let me ask you: do you think that that painful and terrible list is a
>>> proper rebuttle? Do you really think that US support (first on part of the
>>> government and then later by too many people) of regime change and more
>>> prohibits the US from complaint? Why can't we recognize the fallacy behind
>>> that logic? Would we say that the members who sit on the International Court
>>> of Justice can't hear cases against warlords or dictators given their own
>>> countries' past crimes?
>>> 
>>> The judge who has blocked Chump's order offers a point of comparison; do you
>>> think something similar could happen in Russia? I think the folks who engage
>>> in the Tu Quoque argument should not just spend some time in Russia but also
>>> go talk to the Chechens. However, for a cheap primer you could watch the PBS
>>> documentary "Return of the Czar" - before you get any ideas, it posits how
>>> the US in the '90's could be said to be guilty for the rise of Putin.
>>> Another item to add to the list of shame.
>>> 
>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhStxLABfMs
>>> 
>>> No, Donnie, the US is not so innocent. And niether am I. But I still know
>>> how to discern a brute from someone who has behaved brutishly, a killer from
>>> someone who has killed. If you can't then we may be in for big trouble.
>>> 
>>> ciao
>>> mc otis
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