A different take on Russia

[rich]

the question is where we go from here? an immoral Kissinger-style balancing
realpolitik or a samantha power moral-based activist foreign policy have
both failed.
Russia for good or ill must be engaged on some level.

I'm a bit taken back by the outpouring of grief at the death of Diana-like
mourning for Obama lacks a true perspective of the Obama presidency--the
never-ending and expansive wars in the middle east, africa and Afghanistan
is most glaring example and his failure. we have to divorce the man who i
respect with his policies many of which I questioned.

rich

On Fri, Jan 20, 2017 at 11:26 AM, Bruno Nogueira <bruno.laze at gmail.com>
wrote:

> For many years, Russia ceased to exist in Western media. There's only
> Putin, the bad guy. He's the center of Russian universe, everything that
> happens there is his fault. All political decisions are due to his madness.
> Maybe in Russian newspapers we see headlines such as "Obama drops 6 bombs
> per hour"...
>
> I'm not pro-Russia, but what we are doing in the West is very dangerous
> and may lead to cruelty. There are human beings in Russia with many
> different viewpoints, and we mainly ignore them.
>
> Thanks for sharing. We need more of this.
>
> 2017-01-20 5:10 GMT-06:00 ish mailian <ishmailian at gmail.com>:
>
>> > My point is, of course, that for many people across the West regime
>> change
>> > suddenly stopped being an international crime and became good practice
>> once
>> > Obama and, more importantly, Clinton entered office. Many people who
>> call
>> > themselves liberals or progressives and rightfully condemn those earlier
>> > US/CIA sponsored coups, not to mention the Iraq War, torture and
>> Guantanamo,  wholeheartedly supported and still support the "transition of
>> power"
>> > brokered (Obama's words) by the US in Ukraine.
>>
>> Maybe we are all realists now. It's uncomfortable to hope that Henry
>> Kissinger may educate Trump and that the high moral road not taken,
>> made muddied and impassable by the crimes of Kissinger in Vietnam and
>> elsewhere, and by the crimes of every president since, though it
>> remain closed indefinitely, will one day be travelled and make all the
>> difference we hope for. Hope can be a dangerous deception. The road
>> we've taken, the one we find ourselves on has no moral footing, but
>> devils can strike deals as well an angels and realists can see through
>> the mud to improved stability and security.
>>
>> >
>> > (At first I thought that these people just didn't have enough
>> information,
>> > but now I realize that I have been wrong. They view Russia as the enemy,
>> > facts be damned.)
>>
>>
>> There's lots of truth in that I suspect. The misinformation has been
>> blinding. And Putin is a thug, a bad actor, a killer, ruthless.  Obama
>> is a good man as presidents go.  Still, US policy has been more the
>> cause than any nostalgic ambitions of Putin.
>>
>>
>> >
>> > The Maidan coup was not in any significant way different to Guatemala,
>> Iran,
>> > Chile etc. It is a continuation of the same old imperialist power
>> politics
>> > -- with the added frisson of doing it right at Russia's border.
>>
>> Disagree. To lump these together is bad history and analysis. as you
>> not, though, the most significant difference is location.
>>
>> >
>> > Trump is right about one thing only: He wants de-escalation of tensions
>> with
>> > Russia. And for this, and much less for his misogyny or his racism or
>> his
>> > corporate agenda, he is attacked by the bipartisan War Establishment
>> and the
>> > deep state.
>> >
>> > The liberal establishment or Clintonite wing of the Democratic Party is
>> now
>> > openly on the side of warmongers John McCain, Lindsey Graham, and Cheney
>> > protégé Victoria Nuland (not to mention Ukrainian neo-Nazis yet again)
>> and
>> > of proven liars like Brennan and Clapper  -- all of them members of the
>> > bipartisan War Party executing the wishes of the MIC ("my funding,
>> funding,
>> > ahhh more, more").
>> >
>> > If this isn't reason enough for a long, hard look in the mirror, I don't
>> > know what is.
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>
>
>
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