GR translation: Far from rag, snow, lacerated streets

[Mike Jing]

You are probably right. Thanks everyone for responding.

On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 5:51 AM, Mike Weaver <mike.weaver at zen.co.uk> wrote:
> I'm with Dave Morris on this. I see rag as simply torn material, either
> shredded flags - companion of the previous phrase's 'placards'-  the
> remnants of demonstrations or street fighting  or that Galina was a child of
> poverty, clothed in rags and her circumstance now somewhat improved, they
> are a motif of her childhood, or both and even clothing torn by gunfire -
> lacerated in fact.
> A straight translation works for all.
>
>
> On 10-Jun-17 9:40 AM, Mike Jing wrote:
>>
>> "Noise" probably came from this:
>>
>> rag, n.4
>>
>> Chiefly University slang.
>>
>>    Originally: an act of ragging (see rag v.3); spec. a noisy debate or
>> rowdy celebration, esp. as carried on in defiance of authority or
>> discipline; (also) a boisterous prank or practical joke. Now usually:
>> a programme of satirical revues, frivolous stunts, parades, etc.,
>> organized by students to raise money for charity. Now chiefly in
>> compounds.
>>
>> 1825   J. Jamieson Etymol. Dict. Sc. Lang. Suppl.   Rag,..2) a debate
>> or contention.
>> 1864   H. Sidgwick Let. July in A. Sidgwick & E. M. Sidgwick H.
>> Sidgwick (1906) ii. 111   They enjoy beer, tobacco and students'
>> ‘rags’.
>> 1892   Isis No. 13. 88/2   The College is preparing for a good old rag
>> to-night.
>> 1894   W. H. Wilkins & H. Vivian Green Bay Tree I. 275   It was the
>> usual senseless ‘rag’ in which Pimlico and his friends were wont to
>> indulge at their convivial gatherings.
>> 1930   J. Buchan Castle Gay iv. 60,   I do not wish to have my name
>> associated with an undergraduate—‘rag’, I think is the word.
>> 1975   Times 23 May 14/5   Students at the University of East Anglia
>> have admitted their guilt, in the cause of a forthcoming student rag.
>> 1990   N. Annan Our Age vi. 90   The philistine members of Our Age
>> wanted to regard life as a rag in order to forget the Great War.
>>
>> Maybe the celebration after the revolution? Seems a bit far-fetched,
>> but that's just me.
>>
>> Compare this with:
>>
>> rag, n.1
>>
>>   2. Any hard, coarse sedimentary rock that can be readily broken into
>> thick slabs for use as paving, whetstones, etc.; = ragstone n. 1.
>> Formerly also †in pl. with sing. concord.
>>
>> 1847   Tennyson Princess iii. 64   Hornblende, rag and trap and tuff.
>> 1879   F. Rutley Study of Rocks iii. 20   Some..as the Kentish rag,
>> afford good building stones.
>> 1908   Geogr. Jrnl. 32 277   The Hythe Beds, an important
>> water-bearing bed, consist of alternate layers of hard limestone and
>> chert termed rag.
>> 1942   Mariner's Mirror 28 21   The transport of coral rag and firewood.
>> 2005   Western Morning News (Plymouth) (Nexis) 15 June 7   The
>> farmhouse is an attractive south-facing property traditionally
>> constructed with stone and part cob elevations under a rag slate roof.
>>
>> Not quite obvious either, but it's indeed singular and without
>> article. I was just thinking of the paving stones on those "lacerated
>> streets".
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Jun 10, 2017 at 1:36 AM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> David has something there but in the case of "rag" his advice is hard to
>>> follow: Mike has to decide which of the different "rags" P had in mind
>>> here.
>>>
>>> The German translation has "Lärm" [Laerm] (noise) and although the
>>> translator is one of the very best (and the word does make sense in the
>>> context) I cannot see where he did get it from.
>>>
>>> 2017-06-10 4:00 GMT+02:00 David Morris <fqmorris at gmail.com>:
>>>>
>>>> Often, though we all love to interpret, I think in instances like this,
>>>> Mike should go more with literal translation, word for word as bast he
>>>> can.
>>>> Let others interpret.
>>>>
>>>> This advice is 180 degrees opposite from my previous advice on poetry
>>>> translation.  There the text was layered, overlapping with rich close by
>>>> allusions.  Here any allusions are opaque.  Just go literal.
>>>>
>>>> David Morris
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 11:09 AM Monte Davis <montedavis49 at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> It may refer back to "The winds, the city snows and heat waves of
>>>>> Galina's childhood were never so pitiless" (341), but we don't get more
>>>>> of
>>>>> her back story than that, although the equestrian statue says it was in
>>>>> St.
>>>>> Petersburg. I can imagine metaphorically "lacerated" streets there
>>>>> during a
>>>>> 1914-1921 (WWI - Revolution - Civil War) childhood, but don't have
>>>>> anything
>>>>> for "rag" beyond a weak association with the little match girl or other
>>>>> waif
>>>>> in rags...
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/44/The_Little_Match_Girl_-_Bayes_1889.jpg
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 9, 2017 at 9:13 AM, Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> no, most definitely not.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2017-06-09 14:58 GMT+02:00 Mike Jing <gravitys.rainbow.cn at gmail.com>:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> V343.15-21, P348.17-23   . . . even now in her grownup dreams, to
>>>>>>> anxious Galina comes the winged rider, red Sagittarius off the
>>>>>>> childhood placards of the Revolution. Far from rag, snow, lacerated
>>>>>>> streets she huddles here in the Asian dust with her buttocks arched
>>>>>>> skyward, awaiting the first touch of him—of it. . . . Steel hooves,
>>>>>>> teeth, some whistling sweep of quills across her spine . . . the
>>>>>>> ringing bronze of an equestrian statue in a square, and her face,
>>>>>>> pressed into the seismic earth. . . .
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The word "rag" here means "ragstone", is that correct?
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>> -
>> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=nchon-l
>>
>
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