RIP Chuck Berry

Tue Mar 21 15:05:58 CDT 2017

Er... that sounded a bit fascist.

2017-03-21 12:11 GMT-05:00 DuBois, John E. <jdubois at cabq.gov>:

> I must say I find the whole discussion ironic to say the least.  First,
> you must always separate the art from the artist.  Second, have you people
> even read *Gravity’s Rainbow*?  Brigadier Ernest Pudding. Hello.  Miklos
> Thanatz. Hello.  Slothrop's pedophilic sex with Bianca. Hello.  You
> wouldn’t or shouldn’t be on this listserv if you don’t recognize the
> artistic value in what Pynchon is doing there.  Yet you are upset over
> allegations about indiscretions in the life of Chuck Berry?  I see a
> performance like https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ROwVrF0Ceg and I am
> just in awe of the artistry.  If you choose not to mourn the man, so be it,
> but you must mourn the passing of the art.
>
>
>
> *From:* owner-pynchon-l at waste.org [mailto:owner-pynchon-l at waste.org] *On
> Behalf Of *David Morris
> *Sent:* Tuesday, March 21, 2017 10:22 AM
> *To:* Jochen Stremmel; Mark Thibodeau
> *Cc:* Jemmy Bloocher; Jesse Gooch; Pynchon Mailing List; Toby Levy
>
> *Subject:* Re: RIP Chuck Berry
>
>
>
> I also agree with Mark.
>
>
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 9:14 AM Jochen Stremmel <jstremmel at gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> I'm with Mark on this one.
>
>
>
> 2017-03-21 15:02 GMT+01:00 Mark Thibodeau <jerkyleboeuf at gmail.com>:
>
> So, basically, by this standard, world history previous to 1935 was
> populated pretty much entirely by monsters, perverts, pedophiles, and
> genociders.
>
> Personally, I think it's more constructive to take a slightly elastic
> view, depending on the variables.
>
> MT
>
> On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 6:07 AM, Jemmy Bloocher <jbloocher at gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > I'm with Jesse on this one.
> >
> > On Tue, Mar 21, 2017 at 2:35 AM, Jesse Gooch <jlgooch at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I don’t really see what her being a prostitute has to do with it.  She
> >> could be a cannibal who fights dogs when she isn’t busy burning
> churches,
> >> and she would still be a child.  If a man sleeps with a prostitute and
> it
> >> happens to be a child, or if he has sex with a child and it is used
> against
> >> him by an inherently racist system, he is still having sex with a child.
> >> It’s not unfair that he went to jail for it, it’s unfair that others
> should
> >> have and didn’t because they didn’t share his status or skin color.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Toby Levy <tobyglevy at gmail.com>
> >> Date: Monday, March 20, 2017 at 3:46 PM
> >> To: Jesse Gooch <jlgooch at hotmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: RIP Chuck Berry
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The 14 year old girl was a prostitute. After the first mistrial she was
> >> arrested in another city for prostitution. Who knows what really
> happened 50
> >> years ago, but the charge of bringing a minor across state lines to
> have sex
> >> was brought to show an uppity Chuck Berry where he stood in society,
> not to
> >> protect the morals of the girl.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 9:13 AM, Jesse Gooch <jlgooch at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> Did he not have sex with that girl?  Seems like there are several other
> >> articles that said he did.  I read a few before posting anything about
> it to
> >> make sure I wasn’t misremembering something.  I don’t doubt for a second
> >> that the prosecution was aided by him being a black man, if it had it
> been
> >> Elvis, there would have been no jail time.  Jerry Lee Lewis caught a
> lot of
> >> flack, but never actually went to jail for his child-bride either.
> Doesn’t
> >> mean he wasn’t having sex with that girl though.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> From: Toby Levy <tobyglevy at gmail.com>
> >> Date: Monday, March 20, 2017 at 8:44 AM
> >> To: Jesse Gooch <jlgooch at hotmail.com>
> >> Subject: Re: RIP Chuck Berry
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The only reason he went to jail for violating the Mann act was that he
> was
> >> black:
> >>
> >>
> >> http://heavy.com/entertainment/2017/03/chuck-
> berry-why-did-go-to-prison-jail-sentence-in-1960s-
> violate-mann-act-prostitution-tax-evasion/
> >>
> >> And the bathroom videotaping was a stupid thing to do but hardly rises
> to
> >> the charge of pedophilia.
> >>
> >> He was a great creative artist in the 1950s. He was not a great human
> >> being. But not a reprehensible villain.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Mon, Mar 20, 2017 at 1:58 AM, Jesse Gooch <jlgooch at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I was in prison with some child molesters that could paint beautiful
> >> paintings, but they were pedophiles, not artists. I don’t disagree that
> >> Chuck Berry was a great musician.  He was incredibly talented and
> >> influential, but I feel like taping women while they shit in his
> restaurant,
> >> and having sex with 14-year-old girls, negates most of what a person
> does.
> >> I’m weird like that.
> >>
> >>
> >> On 3/20/17, 1:47 AM, "owner-pynchon-l at waste.org on behalf of Thomas
> >> Eckhardt" <owner-pynchon-l at waste.org on behalf of
> >> thomas.eckhardt at uni-bonn.de> wrote:
> >>
> >>     Am 20.03.2017 um 03:33 schrieb Jesse Gooch:
> >>
> >>     > Yeah, and after doing all of that travelling he got wealthy enough
> >> to secretly videotape women going to the bathroom.  Kind of a scumbag.
> >>
> >>     Yes. Also a great artist.
> >>     -
> >>     Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?list=pynchon-l
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> -
> Pynchon-l / http://www.waste.org/mail/?listpynchon-l
>
>
>
>
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